Body Armour
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Kobun
Member
Kevlar, kevlar, kevlar.
Do NOT get any of the "special" fabrics.
Get NIJ level II or IIIA.
Do NOT get any of the "special" fabrics.
Get NIJ level II or IIIA.
Good brands include Point Blank,Second Chance, Paraclete- and others. Is this a daily use vest mainly- or mainly shtf? If it's daily get a lower threat level that's very concealable- level II plus. If it's shtf consider IVa with plates as it will stop most anything short of .50bmg.
Downside is cost, weight, and lack of concealability.
Give more details and someone will give specific advice.
Take it easy-Anthony
Downside is cost, weight, and lack of concealability.
Give more details and someone will give specific advice.
Take it easy-Anthony
Kacerdias
Member
Kevlar = good.
Stay away from Second Chance! The Zylon based body armor has a serious defect which may cause it to fail. The material's effectiveness degrades quickly over time. I don't think Zylon is on the market anymore, but Second Chance Inc. knew about the defective material and continued to sell it rather than initiate a recall. The product was not pulled from the market until multiple lawsuits brought public attention to it. Even if their other vests are of sufficient quality, I wouldn't do business with a company with such low ethical standards.
For a quicky news article, check out the following link:
http://www.grandlodgefop.org/newsinfo/issues/zylon.html
Stay away from Second Chance! The Zylon based body armor has a serious defect which may cause it to fail. The material's effectiveness degrades quickly over time. I don't think Zylon is on the market anymore, but Second Chance Inc. knew about the defective material and continued to sell it rather than initiate a recall. The product was not pulled from the market until multiple lawsuits brought public attention to it. Even if their other vests are of sufficient quality, I wouldn't do business with a company with such low ethical standards.
For a quicky news article, check out the following link:
http://www.grandlodgefop.org/newsinfo/issues/zylon.html
tater_salad
Member
Point Blank is a smart choice. Used by the military. Enough Said.
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
If buying a SHTF vest, then get the full IIIA front opening vest that accepts level III or IV hard armor. If for everyday use, you probably want a traditional concealing vest of the type typically worning under one's clothing. A IIIA kevlar version will be thicker than a II or IIA and will be visible, but is the best way to go for actual protection.
Point Blank is a good brand, but holy cow, the notion that the military uses it means that is should be a good product is terrible logic. The military is not known for their stellar decisions and suppliers are often the lowest bidders.
Kevlar really is the best and most proven way to go. There are some lighter products, but kevlar seems to have the best overall track record. Generally, vests are rated for 5 years of use. I have purchased used kevlar vest panels off of ebay that were up to 15 years old that still retained most or all of their ballistic-stopping capabilities.
I too would not buy from Second Chance after their major screw up with zylon. They have filed for bankruptcy. This came after a class action suit by Texas. Second Chance had several suits filed already, but Texas' was fairly huge. Second Chance had offered to send all zylon users additional layers to put with zylon. On behalf of all the state's LE agencies, Texas' suit basically said that the suggested patch was not adequate and that it wanted all zylon vests to be replaced with new kevlar vests. This had been requested before the suit, but Second Chance said, "No."
As far as brands go, it really isn't the brand that is in question when it comes to ballistic vests, but the construction material. All USA kevlar vests are going to be DuPont kevlar, regardless of the company that constructs the kevlar panels and carriers. Companies like Point Blank don't actually manufacture the kevlar.
Point Blank is a good brand, but holy cow, the notion that the military uses it means that is should be a good product is terrible logic. The military is not known for their stellar decisions and suppliers are often the lowest bidders.
Kevlar really is the best and most proven way to go. There are some lighter products, but kevlar seems to have the best overall track record. Generally, vests are rated for 5 years of use. I have purchased used kevlar vest panels off of ebay that were up to 15 years old that still retained most or all of their ballistic-stopping capabilities.
I too would not buy from Second Chance after their major screw up with zylon. They have filed for bankruptcy. This came after a class action suit by Texas. Second Chance had several suits filed already, but Texas' was fairly huge. Second Chance had offered to send all zylon users additional layers to put with zylon. On behalf of all the state's LE agencies, Texas' suit basically said that the suggested patch was not adequate and that it wanted all zylon vests to be replaced with new kevlar vests. This had been requested before the suit, but Second Chance said, "No."
As far as brands go, it really isn't the brand that is in question when it comes to ballistic vests, but the construction material. All USA kevlar vests are going to be DuPont kevlar, regardless of the company that constructs the kevlar panels and carriers. Companies like Point Blank don't actually manufacture the kevlar.
Lupinus
Member
While the military make's some great choice's, they also make some of the worst one's.
1800's when we fought in the Phillipeens someone had the bright idea a .38 pistol would be a cheaper side arm and it proved usless to do anything other then tick off some enraged tribesmen unless you got him strait in the heart or between the eye's.
In WW1 we had the worst designed pack imaginable. It wasn't even a pack it was a bunch of flaps that when loaded and tied held your gear. Someone else had to pull your bouynet for you. And weight distribution was horrible.
Vietnam, the first M16's were crap. Corroded, jammed, didn't (according to my knowlage, someone please correct me if I am wrong) even come with a cleaning kit. It jammed a lot and failed. This was fixed but early one's were crap.
Fast foreward to today. The GPS system's the military issue's are crap and hated. They are big, bulky, heavy, and have crappy battery life. Plus are hidiously expensive. Most soldier's that need a GPS unit actually supply their own in favor of the military official one. The one's you can buy on the market are cheaper, smaller, lighter, easier to carry, get much better battery life out of smaller batteries, and sometimes even more accurate then the military one.
Plenty of other time's but these are some of the larger one's that come to my mind at the moment. Most of the stuff our military use's is great stuff. But just "used by the military so it must be good" isn't always the best way to think about thing's.
www.uscav.com has some good stuff, along with other gear aswell. some of thier vests has the tacticool and usefull web gear.
http://www.engardebodyarmor.com/ has a neat vest that looks just like one you'd wear under a sports jacket or suit.
~TMM
http://www.engardebodyarmor.com/ has a neat vest that looks just like one you'd wear under a sports jacket or suit.
~TMM
wingnutx
Member
You can hide your vest in plain sight by getting one of those 5.11 vests. Looks like a fatter version of the regular non-armor vest.
tater_salad
Member
OK, maybe saying that "because the military uses it it is perfect" was not the best way to put in my vote, I do understand that generally the lowest bidder gets the contract. However, this gear saves lives on the front lines in Iraq, I've seen it first hand. If point blank makes armor that will stand up not only to the high powered 7.62 rounds coming out of the business end of AK-47s, AK-74s, and their light machine guns etc, but also to the extreme heat, cold (yes it gets cold over there too!), and daily abuse that this gear is subjected to on a DAILY basis for periods 12 to 18 months, I would not hesitate to pick them for my SHTF vest. If you have any doubts, check this out. Real Life Body Armor Test (right click and save as if it doesn't play in the web browser) and before someone goes and says it, yes I'm sure that insurgent hit the trauma plate and that it wasn't just the vest that stopped the round, but proves to me the gear works, and works well.
Reloader
Member
Sam's Club used to carry them on special order.
Check out the footage of an interceptor vest w/trauma plate stopping a rifle round! It's a heck of a story too.
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-976420.php
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-976420.php
B
boofus
Guest
+1 on the Point Blank Interceptor. That piece of equipment has saved countless lives over in the sandpit.
It's bulky, hot and almost impossible to turn your head when you have the collar assembly attached but nothing else will do the job as inexpensively. I got mine off Ebay for $200 a couple years ago.
It's bulky, hot and almost impossible to turn your head when you have the collar assembly attached but nothing else will do the job as inexpensively. I got mine off Ebay for $200 a couple years ago.
Mulliga
Member
Can we peasants even get Interceptor vests?
Ummm.... I "know of someone" that brought one back from a certain place. That would be the best way to get your hands on one. Or, if you live in Jacksonville, NC make friends with the guy at Saigon Sam's.Mulliga said:Can we peasants even get Interceptor vests?
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
As for Point Blank being able to make vests that stand up to X time in X conditions and X calibers, Point Blank is not offering anything special. First of all, the parts of the "vest" that hold up to the rifle rounds like 7.62xwhatever are the hard plates and the hard plates only. The soft armor section is still only rated at IIIA. On top of that, they are still using some form of kevlar made for them and not by them and as such, they don't have any actual corner of the market for special materials.
The interceptor is a fine piece of work, no doubt, and Point Blank makes it. In short, they have a very nice shell design into which they fit soft and hard armor.
Yes, the gear works, but I don't know that it work "great" as claimed by tater, but it does work to spec. Now, tater may feel that working to spec is the definition of great and that is fine, but Point Blank's materials are not unique.
As for it being illegal to own and interceptor vest as a civilian, that is NOT true. There is no law that says you cannot own one, at the federal level, although local laws may preclude you from owning any type of body armor. There is no specific law about Point Blank Interceptor vests. Point Blank did open market some of their vests before their military contract including the interceptor series. They also had (and may still have) a whole variety of variations designed for specific circumstances such as marine rescue interceptor vests with built in floatation capabilities.
Also, at whatever time the military does outsource worn out or surplus vests, they will be equally legal to own.
FYI, Interceptors work, but are definitely bulky, very bulky with trauma plates. The collar/neck attachments tend to cause some bad chafing.
The interceptor is a fine piece of work, no doubt, and Point Blank makes it. In short, they have a very nice shell design into which they fit soft and hard armor.
Yes, the gear works, but I don't know that it work "great" as claimed by tater, but it does work to spec. Now, tater may feel that working to spec is the definition of great and that is fine, but Point Blank's materials are not unique.
As for it being illegal to own and interceptor vest as a civilian, that is NOT true. There is no law that says you cannot own one, at the federal level, although local laws may preclude you from owning any type of body armor. There is no specific law about Point Blank Interceptor vests. Point Blank did open market some of their vests before their military contract including the interceptor series. They also had (and may still have) a whole variety of variations designed for specific circumstances such as marine rescue interceptor vests with built in floatation capabilities.
Also, at whatever time the military does outsource worn out or surplus vests, they will be equally legal to own.
FYI, Interceptors work, but are definitely bulky, very bulky with trauma plates. The collar/neck attachments tend to cause some bad chafing.
Only wore mine for a day. I was part of a response team moving to a prison riot, ran about three strides before the crotch plate gave me a hard enough whack to put me on the ground. I was out of the fight before I had even arrived.
As for concealable armor, I bought a level II Safariland vest for security work after getting home. It wasn't unbearable, but it's certainly not something I'd want to wear everyday unless my line of work demanded. Now I pretty much just put it on as an extra layer when going to the range in cold weather.
possum
Member
point blank would definetly be my choice I wore one for a year on deployment, though i have not been hit while wearing it a guy in my unit took rds center mass with 7.62x39 we don't know for sure how many but at least 2, and he hurt the next day but he lived so that is all that really matters.
possum
Member
double post!
MikeIsaj
Member
Not personally but met a guy who was hit once. He said it's like getting hit in the chest with a sledge hammer. The vest diffuses the force and prevents penetration. The force still hits you hard. Knocked him down and punched the wind out of him. He also had a baseball size bruise to show for it. He was shot with a .38 at close range.
His message for us was, "It doesn't make you superman."
Spreadfire Arms
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
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Double Naught Spy wrote:
as an aside, there was a guy on the local gun show circuit i run in who got "spoken to" by Department of Defense investigators, who were at the Texas gun shows looking for Interceptor vests.
they confiscated an OTV interceptor vest from him and sicked Austin PD on him. poor guy was the subject of a search warrant where they even took all of his guns too, even though they had nothing to do with the Interceptor vest in question.
i think this case is still pending, but i wouldn't think about purchasing an Interceptor. go with something similar if there is one, if that is what you want.
as an aside, there was a guy on the local gun show circuit i run in who got "spoken to" by Department of Defense investigators, who were at the Texas gun shows looking for Interceptor vests.
they confiscated an OTV interceptor vest from him and sicked Austin PD on him. poor guy was the subject of a search warrant where they even took all of his guns too, even though they had nothing to do with the Interceptor vest in question.
i think this case is still pending, but i wouldn't think about purchasing an Interceptor. go with something similar if there is one, if that is what you want.
english kanigit
Member
I really can't imagine a need (for myself) for a vest outside of SHTF.
Since the interceptor's apparently out, what would some other good options be?
Far as I can tell:
Anybody have any other suggestion? And what about a helmet. Is the K-Pot the best option ?
Since the interceptor's apparently out, what would some other good options be?
Far as I can tell:
- Kevlar (Level III?)
- Accepts trauma plates
- Shoulder, neck protectors?
- Should easily interface with other equipment
- Proven history
- If you're in hurricane territory, it should be 'floatable'.
Anybody have any other suggestion? And what about a helmet. Is the K-Pot the best option ?
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