Bolt action Barrel free floating- Panacea or Pariah

[R.W.Dale]

This will be a bit of a rant but I also hope to have an intelligent discussion on the facts as well.

I'm noticing that free floating the bbl on a bolt gun is heald nowadays as some kind of accuracy mana that is almost a REQUIREMENT, that if you can't cram the LA phone directory in between your stock and BBL your rifle is defective. Some folks will even go so far as to start cutting the stock on a rifle they've NEVER shot.

Yet I've not noted these massive accuracy improvements in many of my guns particularly sporter weight barreled guns. I've helped a few shoot better from shimming&bedding where the action inlet was to deep ad the forend was putting a lot of upward pressure on the stock, But those weren't necessarily free floated when I got done either.

I'm suspecting that the whole free floating thing has much less to do with the bbl and more to do with the expansion properties of wet or hunid WOOD changing POI as pressure on the BBL changed. This theory of mine is reinforced by the fact that a properly reinforced synthetic stock seems to get by just fine in the accuracy DPT with very large points of contact with the BBL and none of my great shooting non free floated wood stocked guns get wet.

Now I'm not saying free floating doesn't have it's place on some guns and that some don't respond well. However I am submitting that free floating isn't the accuracy panacea many seem to think it is.

So what say you am I all wet on this free floating issue?

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I'm suspecting that the whole free floating thing has much less to do with the bbl and more to do with the expansion properties of wet or hunid WOOD changing POI as pressure on the BBL changed

This is spot on. I free float ALL of my barrels unless they prove they NEED a pressure bed. This is opposite of what I used to do which was glass bed the entire barrel channel(which works VERY well in my experience).

 

[gunnie]

on some rifles with iron sights, the free float is of little help. i had a steyr SSG 69 that was not nearly as accurate as the PII that replaced it. i'd guess this was as much a function of unusual bbl vibration characteristics as the lighter VS heavy contour.

getting wood wet on a bedded bbl WILL cause dramatic POI changes. but even dry wood, or synthetic stocks expand at different rates from steel when heat is a factor.

gunnie

 

[PT1911]

Having seen the before and afters of floating..it is obvious that improvements can be made with floating... (say business card width) that said, one should always have a before before seeking the after...


the reaction of the wood to temp and humidity is a large factor (especially with a hunting rifle) but there are also changes associated with barrel heating/harmonics while shooting... the idea behind floating is just to prevent anything from putting pressure on the barrel and thus getting all the accuracy out of said barrel....

all that said, if the headspacing is off, the crown is off, the rifling is worn, or the rifle just plain doesnt like your cartridge you have new problems...

then on to the scope and mounts...

there are MANY factors associated with the accuracy of a rifle..any or all of them can effect the POI...change one... shoot... change another... shoot... and repeat until you are happy with the result.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

change one... shoot... change another... shoot... and repeat until you are happy with the result.

That works in my world.

 

[Art Eatman]

I see it as one of those IF deals. If a rifle isn't responding to various loadings in order to get tight groups, I see it as time to explore possible causes. One of the cheapest and easiest things to do is free-float the barrel. It is common for that to be helpful, in that it eliminates any change in pressure between the wood of the forearm and the steel of the barrel as the barrel heats up and expands ever so slightly.

Seems: It seems as though the bedding of receivers is generally not a cause of loose groups, compared to any problems with the forearm.

I did gunshow tables for some thirty years, and took a lot of good-used trade-ins home. Having a benchrest in the back yard made testing easy. It helped resale if I could provide info about how a rifle performed. Some, I had to "tweak". I dunno; at most a dozen. But clearancing the forearm was almost always an improvement.

My uncle had told me of his little shim deal, out at the forearm tip. A thickness such that it takes about a five-pound pull to insert it. His theory was that the shim acts as a damper on the vibrations of the barrel when fired, and helps consistency from shot to shot.

Doing all this turned my Sako .243 into a sub-MOA critter. Same for my Weatherby Mark V '06. They were horrible until I went to messing. I haven't had to do it on my Ruger 77 Mk II in .223; it's been half-MOA from the git-go. Nor was it necessary on a Ruger 77 heavy-barrelled Swift I once had, with its 3/8 MOA groups.

I guess I'd call it "situational".

 

[Snakum]

I see it as one of those IF deals. If a rifle isn't responding to various loadings in order to get tight groups, I see it as time to explore possible causes. One of the cheapest and easiest things to do is free-float the barrel.

That's what I've seen. One of my M70 synthetic stocked rifles was not floated and though pretty accurate for a stock hunting rifle, it would make shotgun patterns once warm. And the Win Model 70 magnum barrels are pretty thick for a sporter. Thicker than the Savage 111/116 and Marlin XS/XL. But it still sucked wind when hot. After I free-floated it, even before bedding the recoil lug, problem solved. With floating and bedding it now shoots close to MOA with factory ammo even when hot. Though I have always read that wood-stocked M70s usually shoot best with fully bedded barrels.

But then my XS7 has pressure points on the end of the forearm and it shoots MOA with factory ammo right out of the box. So I left it alone. Same with my 597. Shot lights out once I tightened everything up and found the right ammo. I'm not touching it.

What I read here and elsewhere when I first got back into shooting was that every gun is different and you have to try things only when accuracy is problematic. And that proved true in my practical experience as well.

So you're right, imho. Floating isn't a panacea for all sporter rifles.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Panacea or Pariah?

Actually it's neither.

 

[mljdeckard]

I would say, twenty years ago it was more likely to help. A couple of things have happened since then. synthetic stocks have become much more common and affordable. Also, competition and manufacturing processes have made rifles much more accurate than they used to be. Fifteen years or so ago, when I was a rookie drooling all over Stephen Hunter novels, I had this checklist in my head of everything that a tack-driver rifle is supposed to have. What I have since learned is, most rifles will do MOA or better out of the box, if your optics, ammo, and skill do what they are supposed to. I don't see much benefit of bedding if you haven't maxed out the previous three factors.

 

[Slamfire]

Barrel vibration is not something we can see with an eyeball. And yet it is real.

The stiffer the barrel the more consistent the vibration pattern.

The more things you hang off the barrel the more bending modes you will have.

Sometimes adding weights, pressure points, compensators help a lightweight barrel shoot better. But I consider pressure points another thing to go wrong. It is not the first thing I will try. Its closer to being the last thing I will try.

I have had better experiences free floating light weight barrels, and bedding the actions.

 

[Coltdriver]

I have seen many things blamed on barrel/stock/forearm contact that turned out to be incorrect.

I have a .243 Ruger #1 that would reliably string vertically. Turned out it needed to have the shoulder bumped back a bit on the AI cases to get a little head space back. Turned it into a tack driver.

I have a Ruger M77 MKII that I dialed in out of the box using the optimum charge weight method. Got it (.308) down to quarter size groups which is great for me. It has that slim tapered barrel too.

Some shooters put pressure on the barrel on purpose to get a particular vibration tamed or harnessed. Some swear by full floating.

If you ever have a chance to spend some time on varmint al's site take a look at the barrel flex animations he created. They support figuring out the optimum charge weight for a particular round.

 

[ArmedBear]

I have a hunting rifle that's free-floated, with relatively little clearance. You don't notice that it's floated unless you look really close. It's in a B&C stock with some fancy-schmancy aluminum space frame, so wood and humidity aren't an issue.

However, the floating does one thing worth noting: it allows the use of a hasty sling without applying force to the barrel. That, too, is worthwhile.

I don't have a "before and after", since it came in said stock, but I will say that the gun has been more accurate than the average production hunting rifle.

 

[PedalBiker]

I learned to shoot using a sling on a free floated bolt gun. When I was in the Army I learned the hard way that the sling swivel on an AR attaches to the barrel.

With a free floated barrel how you hold the stock, what you rest it on and how much sling tension you pull won't make nearly as much difference. I free float all my hunting guns.

 

[Welding Rod]

There commonly seems to be a lack of differentiation between accurate grouping and consistant POI. The best groups in the world don't impress me if the POI is not consistant.

If a stiff barrel is floated, you will probably enjoy both.

If a light barrel is floated, you should enjoy consistant POI (until barrel heat causes stringing), and may increase or decrease group size.

If a stiff barrel is not floated, you may still get good accuracy, but with some POI change with a wood stock or when slung up.

If a light barrel is not floated, you may still get good accuracy, but likely with significant POI change due to weather, barrel heat, and especially when slinging up.

Seems to me there is no free lunch. If you want consistant POI, you float. If you want the best chance for very good accuracy and consistant POI, you need an adequately sized barrel that is free floating.

 

[Offfhand]

Ultra Light Rifles, now called New Ultra Light, are known for their fine accuracy. Their barrels, which are quite thin, are very closely bedded in the stock. Hard to argue with their success and record of outstanding accuracy, especially for rifles so light. The rifle they made for me weighs under 6lbs, even with a 3-10X Swarovski scope, the barrel is tightly bedded full length and groups three shots in an inch or slighty under at 100 yds with handloads.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

until barrel heat causes stringing

A problem generally not encountered with a hunting rifle.

 

[Maj Dad]

How Firm A Foundation

I have a VZ-24 I bought 10-12 yrs ago that was in a horribly beat up and abused stock. I sanded the worst out of it, then on a whim, cut it down and radiused the forend, and glass-bedded the action & first inch or so of the bbl. I loaded some 150 and 170 gr hunting bullets with a few powders, and one of the loads printed into 1" at 100 yds (witnessed and repeated) off sand bags. This from an old horse that shot surplus Portuguese & Turk into 3-6" - it does have a good bbl & shiny bore, but I think it emphasizes that a bedding job is the foundation for accuracy, with or without forend pressure.

 

[natman]

If a pressure pad improves accuracy it's usually because the bedding has issues and the extra contact point keeps the barreled action from moving around.

Bedding and free floating go together like ham and eggs. Every rifle is different, and sometimes other things work, but the odds are best with a good bedding job and free floating.

 

[slabuda]

With a free floated barrel how you hold the stock, what you rest it on and how much sling tension you pull won't make nearly as much difference. I free float all my hunting guns.

This is one reason for me to have a barrel floated. If you use a sling off hand when no rest is available the tension on it and barrel could affect POI as well as how it may be resting on a rock. log etc all altering the vibration of the stock/barrel.

 

[Slamfire]

Thought I would show a pictorial example of before and after free floating and bedding.







The stock provided a foreend pressure point and the barrel touched the side of the stock.

I believe this, and the action sliding around in the inletting, caused this side to side movement on target. The group is four inches in width at 100 yards



I relived the foreend, running strips of paper between the barrel and stock. Where the paper bound I removed wood.

The numbers on the tape were a guide on where to remove wood.



I created pillars from Bisonite.



I routed a lot of wood around the pillar then poured Bisonite to fill in the voids. The final bedding looks so sloppy that it offends my vanity. So no pictures of the final bedding.



Regardless of the sloppiness of the bedding, free floating the barrel and bedding the action significantally tightened the groups. Five shots within 1.20" at 100 yards. The rifle now shoots round groups.

 

[birdshot8's]

a tip i read; to see if free floating would help but still be reversable was to remove the stock and use the credit card you bought the rifle with to raise the action, which would in turn lift the barrel off the wood. i used this idea on a lightweight husquavarna, but i can't remember the results. i think it must to helped because i never retrieved my credit card from under the action and traded it off with the credit card.

 

[Offfhand]

Floating barrels has simply become a cop-out for gun makers looking for a cheaper and easier way to mass produce rifles, and for gunsmiths who don't have the skill or knowhow to properly bed a rifle's action and barrel. Fortunately, there are still craftsmen who take pride in knowing how to tightly fit a barrel for beauty and accuracy, and customers who will accept nothing less than a perfect fit.

 

[ArmedBear]

there are still craftsmen who take pride in knowing how to tightly fit a barrel for beauty and accuracy, and customers who will accept nothing less than a perfect fit.

Yeah, and when it gets humid, hot or cold, or you use a hasty sling that pulls laterally on the stock, the rifle will STILL shift POI, especially with a lighter barrel contour, designed with an eye towards carrying in the field.

I have both, and I appreciate beauty. It's true that some makers of cheap rifles with overly-flexible stocks free-float barrels to get accuracy on the cheap. But the assertion that, across the board, free-floating has "simply become a cop-out" is silly. Rifles are not just toys for the range or the climate-controlled deer stand. Some of them work for a living -- even expensive ones.

 

[d2wing]

Generally free foating helps if the rifle has a wood stock and is using where moisture could cause swelling or there is contact unevenly between the stock and barrel. Properly bedding a wood stock is fine in a constant climate and when the rifle is not shot enough the heat the barrel. With a synthetic barrel some rifles like a constant and even pressure point or full, bedding better than free floating.