Bolt vs Semi auto

[Blkhrt13]

The Ruger American rifle will be vastly more accurate than either a Mini-30 or SKS. That would be a fine rifle. The cartridge will not be very long range in any rifle but fine for shorter range use. As far as an AR, I have put together Del-ton kits that are good quality and shoot sub-moa. I hope this helps.

I’m wondering if I should look for a bolt 308. I’m not exactly steady enough for super accurate long range but I was reading the x39 has like 10 inch drop at 200 yards. May I get the American ranch next for fun. I dunno.

 

[C-grunt]

The mini 30 made after the 580 are supposed to be a 2 Moa rifle.

That might be true, but most of your bulk 7.62x39 isn't 2 MOA ammo.

 

[mavracer]

I wasn’t trying to start a flame war. But now I want to build an ar for precision. Lol.

Got to thinking you mentioned range in the OP a 7.62x39 Ruger American is still gonna be a 7.62x39 so wind and drop is going to be tough to deal with at longer range. A precision AR in 5.56 with 77 gr SMKs would make 500-600 much easier.

 

[Blkhrt13]

That might be true, but most of your bulk 7.62x39 isn't 2 MOA ammo.

I’m wondering if most common brass ammo is any better. I sure don’t expect a lot from steel case trash ammo. But it’s fun to sling a few boxes now and again.

 

[mavracer]

I’m wondering if most common brass ammo is any better. I sure don’t expect a lot from steel case trash ammo. But it’s fun to sling a few boxes now and again.

I don't have a ton of experience with X39 but I've got a buddy that has a pretty good shooting AR according to him the steel case Wolf JHP shoots better than steel case FMJ.
I think bullet will make more difference than case material.

 

[Blkhrt13]

I need to move out where I can have a range in the back yard again. I think my accuracy is worse than the rifles I have. I will note which bullets group how on my next outing.

 

[Nuclear]

I had an AR 15 built back during the Clinton Assault Weapon Ban just to prove that an AR could be as accurate as a bolt action. It was, cloverleafs at 100 yards. But it cost me about 3 times as much as a comparable bolt action. And it was heavier.

Now the most accurate bolt actions are in aluminum chassis with AR style grips, stocks and pic rails. They are much more accurate now, more expensive and heavier.

 

[Archie]

I really don't know why either.

I do find that to be an intriguing question.
The more I consider it, the more I realize I am concerned with doing things right in the first place. To make hits with the first shot and not rely on a fusillade to score a hit.
However, I do understand some prefer to fire many rounds as a purgative. Good fortune to them.
For me, anything worth shooting is worth shooting well.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

In the context of OP I see at least as many gas guns as I do Ruger Americans.

I literally quoted his question about bolt vs gas and if one was inherently more accurate and I pointed out what the precision pro shooters use. You won't find any Ruger on the top page of national score sheet of those lineups but my point was they all use bolt guns.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Don't know about Mini 30s but regarding Mini 14 rifles. I've had those and not saying some out there won't shoot but from my personal experience I am going to assume one won't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside of the barn until it proves otherwise. I'll never waste another penny on one trying to find out though.

 

[Blkhrt13]

I literally quoted his question about bolt vs gas and if one was inherently more accurate and I pointed out what the precision pro shooters use. You won't find any Ruger on the top page of national score sheet of those lineups but my point was they all use bolt guns.

I understood your point. And appreciated the contribution. I am far too shaky to need a very expensive rifle that I will never master. Given what I am seeing in price change I am also wondering about a 308 savage. There is many options these days. Perhaps the real issue is I need two rifles more now not one!

 

[Blkhrt13]

Don't know about Mini 30s but regarding Mini 14 rifles. I've had those and not saying some out there won't shoot but from my personal experience I am going to assume one won't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside of the barn until it proves otherwise. I'll never waste another penny on one trying to find out though.

Supposedly the 580 series helped improve that and again later they did another improvement. I understand not trusting them again though. I do.

 

[MistWolf]

"some power is lost cycling a bolt?"

Come back when you have more experience with firearms. No offense, but your question is a very uniformed one.

@Blkhrt13 don't listen to this guy. We're all here to learn and exchange knowledge. None of us were born knowing anything about firearms. I was fortunate enough to have a father that taught me from the day I was born.

Very little, if any, of the energy is "lost" to cycling the BCG of an AR. The gas system doesn't fill to operating pressure until after the bullet has exited the muzzle. The AR (as do other gas operated firearms) operate off residual pressure. That means the gas has already done all the work it's going to accelerating the bullet before it starts working the action.

 

[Slamfire]

The mini 30 made after the 580 are supposed to be a 2 Moa rifle.

Look at the market Ruger was making the rifle for. The Mini 14 and Mini 30 were made for those who wanted an M1 carbine, but could not find one beyond predatory prices. And, these are the people who toss their rifle under the floor of their pickup, and bust cans or coyotes. They are not the 1/4 MOA types shooting dragon flies at 300 yards.

Those individuals focusing on infinitesimals closely parallel the insane pointlessness of the problems encountered at this Pharmaceutical firm.

 

[d2wing]

I’m wondering if I should look for a bolt 308. I’m not exactly steady enough for super accurate long range but I was reading the x39 has like 10 inch drop at 200 yards. May I get the American ranch next for fun. I dunno.

Yes, a 308 would give you vastly more range and power. It is a good choice. I prefer the 7-08 myself but the 308 has an advantage in ammo cost and availability. Depending on what you want to do, a .223 gives you long range for target shooting and is ok on up to deer size game. It depends on what you want to do. A .243 is another cartridge to consider in bolt action.
I support your idea of building an AR. I may have said before that I have built a couple Del-To ns that were sub- MOA, very reasonable in price and in spec.

 

[SwampWolf]

I do find that to be an intriguing question.
The more I consider it, the more I realize I am concerned with doing things right in the first place. To make hits with the first shot and not rely on a fusillade to score a hit.

You can "do things right in the first place" by making every shot count, be it the first one or the last one, no matter how many or how few rounds a given firearm carries. There is this ongoing myth that the more rounds a hunter/shooter has at his/her disposal, the more apt he/she is to rely on firepower instead of marksmanship. Poppycock! There is no substitute for training and good sportsmanship and one benefitting from same is no more inclined to launch a "fusillade" of bullets at his target with his AR-15 than an untrained hunter using a single-shot flintlock rifle is more inclined to shooting his whitetail target in the buttocks.

It has everything to do with good training and sportsman-like conduct and nothing to do with ammunition capacity.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Actually, the bullet is still in the bore when the gas goes back down the tube to energize the piston, and send the bolt carrier to the rear. It's the bullet's dwell time once past the gas port in the barrel that matters, which reputedly caused issues with early 16" carbines and rifle length gas systems; there wasn't much barrel left past the gas port. My own Brownells replica runs just fine.
But the gas loss is so minuscule as to not signify.
Moon
ETA-actually, the gas(and its accompanying noise) has to go somewhere, and 'somewhere' are those two small holes in the bolt carrier. Because of that noise, from the rifleman to my left on the range, I still enjoy tinnitus in my left ear.
M

 

[MistWolf]

Actually, the bullet is still in the bore when the gas goes back down the tube to energize the piston, and send the bolt carrier to the rear. It's the bullet's dwell time once past the gas port in the barrel that matters, which reputedly caused issues with early 16" carbines and rifle length gas systems; there wasn't much barrel left past the gas port. My own Brownells replica runs just fine.
But the gas loss is so minuscule as to not signify.
Moon

The gas may start entering the gas port, but it doesn't come close to energizing the system or moving the BCG before the bullet hits the muzzle. You can clearly see this if you study slow motion video of a gas operated rifle firing.

The Army has technical papers documenting this.

The difference in "dwell time" between a 16 and 14.5 inch barrel is a fraction of a millionth of a second.

Gas operated rifles are driven by the residual pressure left in the bore after the bullet exits the muzzle. The exception is blow back actions. Blow back actions start functioning as pressure builds enough to start driving the bullet forward. The trick is getting the reciprocating mass and spring rate right to keep the empty case from ejecting while the bullet is still in the bore and pressure is still high.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Look at the market Ruger was making the rifle for. The Mini 14 and Mini 30 were made for those who wanted an M1 carbine, but could not find one beyond predatory prices. And, these are the people who toss their rifle under the floor of their pickup, and bust cans or coyotes. They are not the 1/4 MOA types shooting dragon flies at 300 yards.

Those individuals focusing on infinitesimals closely parallel the insane pointlessness of the problems encountered at this Pharmaceutical firm.

Except there are those of us who keep a rifle tossed in the back floorboard of our trucks but also tend to bust those cans or coyotes at 300 yards. That's where the Ruger minis gets the bad rap and an AR15 or bolt action is the truck gun.

 

[mavracer]

For what the 7.62x39 American Ranches are going for there's a bunch of 6.5 Grendel American Ranches for 500ish leaving 3 bones for ammo.
6.5 Grendel has a lot less drop with the right bullets. 308 is never a bad choice either.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

I’m wondering if I should look for a bolt 308. I’m not exactly steady enough for super accurate long range but I was reading the x39 has like 10 inch drop at 200 yards. May I get the American ranch next for fun. I dunno.

For what it's worth, which probably ain't much, but my truck gun is a Ruger American in 308 and I'll take a shot with confidence at a deer, coyote, groundhog, fox or whatever farm varmint that needs to be removed out to around 300 yards using a fortune cookie and a solid rest.

I got mine on sale years ago at Rural King and put a Leupold Redfield scope out of the local Cabelas bargain cave and have less than 500 in the whole rig and it shoots better than some pretty pricey rifles I've handled. In fact I would go so far as to say it's the most accurate rifle based on what it cost than I've ever handled. I was just putting together a cheap truck gun and very pleasantly surprised at it's accuracy. I do use handloaded ammo but never really worked up a load specific for it, it just happened to like a load that I always loaded for another rifle so I stuck with that.

I would have rather had a 7-08 but they didn't have any more during the sale at the time so I got the 308. If you don't reload then the 308 would be better anyway.

 

[Newtosavage]

That might be true, but most of your bulk 7.62x39 isn't 2 MOA ammo.

I've fired a lot of bulk 7.62x39 ammo, and I've yet to find any that wouldn't shoot 1.5 MOA or better through a good bolt action. But when you combine 1.5 MOA ammo with a 1.5 MOA gun, you sometimes get 2 MOA or worse performance.

 

[Newtosavage]

For what it's worth, which probably ain't much, but my truck gun is a Ruger American in 308 and I'll take a shot with confidence at a deer, coyote, groundhog, fox or whatever farm varmint that needs to be removed out to around 300 yards using a fortune cookie and a solid rest.

I got mine on sale years ago at Rural King and put a Leupold Redfield scope out of the local Cabelas bargain cave and have less than 500 in the whole rig and it shoots better than some pretty pricey rifles I've handled. In fact I would go so far as to say it's the most accurate rifle based on what it cost than I've ever handled. I was just putting together a cheap truck gun and very pleasantly surprised at it's accuracy. I do use handloaded ammo but never really worked up a load specific for it, it just happened to like a load that I always loaded for another rifle so I stuck with that.

I would have rather had a 7-08 but they didn't have any more during the sale at the time so I got the 308. If you don't reload then the 308 would be better anyway.

Man how do I need to move back to places where Rural King sells firearms.

 

[Varminterror]

6.5 Grendel has a lot less drop with the right bullets.

I would have rather had a 7-08

Do one of these over 308.