Border Checkpoints...100 Miles Inland

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Flyboy

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http://reason.com/blog/show/117416.html
DHS Defends the Borders from Terrorist Pot

Radley Balko | December 20, 2006, 7:48pm

Federal vehicle stops near the Canadian border aimed at catching terrorists haven't caught a single Mohamed Atta, but they are catching lots of dopers :

Security stops of cars in rural New England near the US border with Canada, which became more frequent after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, have yet to snare a single terrorist -- but they have contributed to a huge, unexpected increase in marijuana seizures, according to homeland security authorities.

The seizures, which soared from 419 pounds in 2000 to more than 3,000 pounds last year, have pleased the federal Department of Homeland Security but have angered Vermonters and civil libertarians, who say the more aggressive US Border Patrol checkpoints should not be used for everyday law enforcement.

Some Vermonters are complaining about the patrol's more aggressive tactics, especially the use of highway checkpoints as far as 100 miles from the border. They say the random checkpoints -- which stop all passing cars inside the state, even if they're not headed to or from the border -- can make driving within their state feel like being in Eastern Europe under communism.

One problem is that there's some considerable constitutional ambiguity here. The Supreme Court okayed roadblock sobriety checkpoints in the early 1990s under the dubious reasoning that though they do probably violate the Fourth Amendment, any constitutional concerns are trumped by the alarming number of "alcohol-related" traffic fatalities. The hyped-up, inflated number the Court cited at the time was around 25,000. It's now at about 17,000. But when you count only people killed by legally intoxicated drivers, as the L.A. Times did in a terrific 2002 report, the number is closer to 5,000.

Believe it or not, several years later in Indianapolis v. Edmond the Court actually ruled that random roadblocks were not constitutional when used to check motorists for possession of illicit drugs. The reasoning there was that a motorist's mere possession of illicit drugs has little bearing on highway safety, and thus doesn't justify the Fourth Amendment violation (interestingly, Clarence Thomas wrote a dissent in that case in which he called out the questionable distinction between drug possession and intoxication, and held open the possibility of revisiting the legality of DWI checkpoints).

To further complicate matters, the Court ruled 30 years ago that roadblocks are constitutional when they're set up near the border, and used to enforce immigration laws.

I expect we'll see more on this when someone challenges seat-belt checkpoints.

The question, then, is what happens when roadblocks are set up and operated under a justification that's constitutional (border control), but it's clear that they're being used almost exclusively in a way that's unconstitutional (drug searches). That seems to be what's happening in Vermont. Of course, most DWI checkpoints today do more to generate revenue than to actually catch inebriated motorists.

There's also the question of whether 100 miles qualifies as "near" the border.
 
And a few choice comments from that thread:
I've been through these boarder patrol checkpoints in Vermont several times. DHS always stopped every car on the interstate, and started by asking citizenship. This seemed odd to me, since I'd never left the United States, and therefore I didn't have any proof of citizenship on me. If an officer didn't beleive that I was a US Citizen, how could I defend myself?
100 miles from the border includes large cities like Seattle, Detroit, Buffalo and Rochester.

Does the 4th amendment no longer apply in those cities?
They're also doing this in Texas, on I-10. A Highway that is near the border in places, but runs east/west.
 
It's All Pretend

We're still pretending that Vicente Fox and pale-faced upper-class Mexicans like him and his rich buddies are representative of the general population of Mexico. He and his buddies are the white elite (Don't yell at me, I'm quite white m'self) pretending to represent a mostly Indio/Mestizo country.

Edward Abbey had it about right, I think; He wanted to give every illegal immigrant from Mexico a rifle and 1000 rounds, and send him home to finish his revolution.

Where is Benito Juarez, now that we really need him?

Yah, I know. Maybe we could dig him up and resurrect him?

Maybe the zombie of a virtuous man is better than a live criminal?
 
Flyboy, that !-10 checkpoint, near Sierra Blanca, catches a lot of illegals eastbound from El Paso. A fair tonnage of dope, too. There's another westbound checkpoint on I-10, west of Las Cruces, NM.

There is a checkpoint, westbound, on US 90 near Comstock, west of Del Rio. Dunno about its catch rate. Same for the eastbound checkpoint on US 90, toward Uvalde.

From my area, the checkpoints on US 385, on SH 118 and on US 67 are all about 50 to 70 miles north of the border. Makes sense; why have them a long way from home? Keep the commute reasonable.

So I don't see what difference it makes about the distance. Illegals get got, drugs get got, and I guess some drunks get got. It's common for Highway Patrol and/or Sheriff's deputies to be in the area of the checkpoints. There is the old radiddio, y'know.

The funniest "checkpoint" is near Valentine, Texas. They'll stop a train, and the Border Patrol guys go to looking. The wets will bail out to run--and stop, look around, and there's nowhere to run to. Miles and miles and miles of open grassland prairie. Oops!

Anybody who doesn't know the deal, well, shame on their happy souls, I guess. These checkpoints have been in place for decades. Since 1972, for most of them, from what I've seen. But, there are a lot of slow learners out there.

Some smugglers tried to go around the SH 118 checkpoint by using ranch roads. A Chevy Blazer, loaded to the roof and from the front seats to the back with bundled Mary Jane. Hey, shouldn't have trespassed on that rancher's land! :D

You've seen these "cage cars" that are used to haul automobiles via train from the manufacturing plant to a distribution point? They exist because illegals used to get on the old-style car carriers and run the engines for heat or A/C. On arrival, empty gas tanks. Plus vandalism; it's easier to use the car as a bathroom than to get outside. And/or stolen batteries. Illegals cause lots of problems--which among other things has increased the cost of transporting of cars...

Art
 
Well, yeah, Art, but you must admit, it used to be more easy-going, when it came to border-crossing. People who liked living in Mexico lived in Mexico, people who liked living in the USA lived here, and visited back and forth all the time, at least in some parts of the Southwest.

Lately, though, I think you might admit that the Mexican government is sluffing off its social problems on us, in the form of lots of poor "Native American" folks it would rather not have to think about.
 
He wanted to give every illegal immigrant from Mexico a rifle and 1000 rounds, and send him home to finish his revolution.

What makes you think those armed illegal immigrants who have any interest in heading south? Haven't they been told the gringo is their enemy and that this land is their land?
 
Art,

With regards to transporting cars, I have noticed somehting recently; pairs of cars, one pulling another, down the highway. Several of these pairs seem to travel together, and they never have license plates (on any of the cars). What's going on here?
 
We're still pretending that Vicente Fox and pale-faced upper-class Mexicans like him and his rich buddies are representative of the general population of Mexico.

Perhaps this rant about Mexico is a little misplaced in response to a post that is dealing exluisively with the Canadian border?
 
flechette:

There is a major business in taking older cars, but especially small pickups from the US into central america. Many of these are rustbuckets or moderately damaged vehicles, that are worth lots in Honduras and other countries. There are lots of these 2-3 vehicles in tow going through south Texas every day of the year. The drivers go there, come back and do it over and over. Lots of graft on the way through Mexico, of course. It averages about $300 per vehicle to get through. The traffic is all south at this point.:rolleyes:
 
Security stops of cars in rural New England near the US border with Canada, which became more frequent after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, have yet to snare a single terrorist -- but they have contributed to a huge, unexpected increase in marijuana seizures, according to homeland security authorities.

The seizures, which soared from 419 pounds in 2000 to more than 3,000 pounds last year, have pleased the federal Department of Homeland Security but have angered Vermonters and civil libertarians, who say the more aggressive US Border Patrol checkpoints should not be used for everyday law enforcement.


I believe all dope users, carriers,sellers ect. should be locked up, but on the other hand, i don't like all the rights we lost to the Patroit Act in the name of homeland security.
I took some Colegiate baseball players to Montreal a few yrs ago for a tourney and comming home we hit a border patroll road ck about 50 miles south of Canada on the northway in NYS , one player had no ID except a letter from his father stating he was allowed to travel with us, after a few hrs and ??? and searching the bags, cars, ph calls, we were finally allowed to travel on.
 
Funny how the concept of somebody else's rights doesn't mean squat -- even to gun owners, who you'd expect to be more thoughtful.
 
The Patriot Act has nothing to do with this.

The US Border Patrol has had the authority to set up checkpoints within 100 "air miles" for many decades. Checkpoints in CA (I-5, I-15, etc), AZ (I-19, etc), NM (Las Cruces, etc), and Texas have been operating for quite some time.

It kinda makes me laugh when the people up north get all butt hurt when their border gets scrutinized.
 
The Supreme Court okayed roadblock sobriety checkpoints in the early 1990s under the dubious reasoning that though they do probably violate the Fourth Amendment, any constitutional concerns are trumped by the alarming number of "alcohol-related" traffic fatalities. The hyped-up, inflated number the Court cited at the time was around 25,000. It's now at about 17,000. But when you count only people killed by legally intoxicated drivers, as the L.A. Times did in a terrific 2002 report, the number is closer to 5,000.

I've made this point several times...checkpoints and unwarranted vehicle searches were approved by the supreme court under narrrow guidelines (DUI fatalities constituted "exigent circumstnaces"). We now find out even that decision was based on misleading data.

Since then, LE has wrongly broadened this approval to include any old reason (seatbelts, child car seats, paperwork, etc.); or no reason at all...it has really become an excuse for conducting fishing expeditions on travelers.

I was talking to a local cop about this recently, he said his dept. is required to run checkpoints periodically, in order do receive a certain block of state funding. Same is true of federal grants, which have become pretty much an expected source of "holiday overtime" pay for police.

So long fourth amendment, its been nice knowing ya...

How about someone reminding us we have no rights, driving is a "privelege", after all. :barf:
 
Security stops of cars in rural New England near the US border with Canada, which became more frequent after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, have yet to snare a single terrorist -- but they have contributed to a huge, unexpected increase in marijuana seizures, according to homeland security authorities.
I wonder how many innocent people have been fleeced of their cash and other property under this campaign.

If this brigade was applied to straightforward INS work in every major city they would make a substantial dent in our security risks and no doubt still score alot of illegal dope and other contraband in the process.

Funny they can direct all these resources and have no legal problem (apparently) stopping and checking cars on a public highway, but they can not enter businesses nationawide and demand ID from everyone onsite? Or the same from the folks loitering at rail crossings etc?

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