USSC 'OK's Random Roadblocks

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mpthole

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WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court, in a case watched anxiously by law enforcement agencies across America, held Tuesday that police may set up roadblocks to collect tips about unsolved crimes.

In a 6-3 decision, the justices found roadblocks seeking such information do not violate the privacy rights of motorists.

The court overturned a decision by the Illinois Supreme Court, which ruled that officers may solicit information from motorists only in an emergency. The case involved a man arrested for drunken driving at a Lombard, Ill., checkpoint set up to get information about an unrelated fatal hit-and-run accident.

Justice Stephen Breyer (search), writing the majority opinion, said that short stops, "a very few minutes at most," are not too intrusive on motorists. Police may hand out a flyer, or ask drivers to volunteer information about crimes, he said.

Lombard Police Deputy Chief Dane Cuny said the court's ruling was vindication for the department and "a victory for law enforcement and the public."

Three justices expressed concerns the ruling could open up motorists to police interference without yielding useful information about crimes.

"There is a valid and important distinction" between seizing a person to determine whether he or she has committed a crime and seizing a person to ask whether that person "has any information about an unknown person who committed a crime a week earlier," wrote Justice John Paul Stevens, joined by Justices David H. Souter (search) and Ruth Bader Ginsburg (search).

The case was a follow-up to a 2000 Supreme Court ruling that roadblocks intended for drug searches are an unreasonable invasion of privacy under the Constitution.

Breyer said that in this case, authorities were investigating a specific crime, and one that resulted in a death. He said the ruling likely will not lead to widespread roadblocks in towns around the country because of limited police funding and community hostility to traffic delays.

Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan said the ruling "will allow law enforcement in Illinois and across the nation to seek voluntary assistance from citizens in their efforts to solve crime."

The Illinois checkpoints had been challenged by Robert Lidster, who was arrested for drunken driving. The roadblock had been set up at the same spot and time of day that the hit-and-run took place, in hopes of getting tips. Authorities said that Lidster nearly hit an officer at the scene with his minivan.

Justices were told during the November argument in the case that the roadblocks are used in all sorts of investigations, like an effort in Utah to try to produce leads after Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped in 2002.

In the partial dissent, Stevens said motorists will be trapped by the checkpoints.

"In contrast to pedestrians, who are free to keep walking when they encounter police officers handing out flyers or seeking information, motorists who confront a roadblock are required to stop, and to remain stopped for as long as the officers choose to detain them," he wrote.

The delays "may seem relatively innocuous to some, but annoying to others ... still other drivers may find an unpublicized roadblock at midnight on a Saturday somewhat alarming."

The three dissenting justices said the case should have been sent back to Illinois courts for more consideration.

The case is Illinois v. Lidster, 02-1060.


Fox News Channel


:barf: :banghead: :cuss:
 
Justice Stephen Breyer (search), writing the majority opinion, said that short stops, "a very few minutes at most," are not too intrusive on motorists. Police may hand out a flyer, or ask drivers to volunteer information about crimes, he said.

Wow. Breyer allows the violation of the 4th and 5th at the same time!

Since when did convenience/incovenience matter when a right is infringed? :barf: :barf: :barf: :cuss: :fire: :mad:
 
Justice Stephen Breyer (search), writing the majority opinion, said that short stops, "a very few minutes at most," are not too intrusive on motorists. Police may hand out a flyer, or ask drivers to volunteer information about crimes, he said.
Doesn't matter to me if it is only a nanosecond--it's too long and it IS an infringement. Who is this clown to define what "not too intrusive" is for the rest of us?

GT
 
Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan said the ruling "will allow law enforcement in Illinois and across the nation to seek voluntary assistance from citizens in their efforts to solve crime."

Kinda reminds me of being a volunteer in the military.
 
Seems like more of the same ..... ''chip-chip-chip'' ....... a minute minority, making a decision that strip rights from the HUGE majority .... and all cos they think ''it's a good idea''.:barf:

''Oh - it'll only mean a very small inconvenience'', ''not too intrusive'' ...... hah! Inconvenience, intrusion, ..... other words would work much better!
"a victory for law enforcement and the public."
Hah! again, ....... ''victory'' for LE perhaps but for the public? (unless you just count sheeple) .... well .. hardly Huh?!:fire:
 
Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan said the ruling "will allow law enforcement in Illinois and across the nation to seek voluntary assistance from citizens in their efforts to solve crime."

Two things come to mind:

1. Miss Madigan, through her comments, is attempting to sell voluntary compliance. Oxymorons such as this render puchase impossible, since I can't place an intangible in my plastic grocery sack.

2. By extension, if my assistance is voluntary, then it follows that my presence should be voluntary. Tell me, what part of a "roadblock" allows me the unencumbered exercise of freewill, which is wholly necessary to accomodate an (alleged) voluntary transaction?

One of Shakespeare's particular sentiments was correct.

TM
 
Well, that's funny because the same SCOTUS denied police authorities the right to create roadblocks for ferreting out drunk drivers (if I recall the details correctly; I think that particular case originated in IN).

So what's to stop the "legal" roadblocks from turning into the "illegal" roadblocks? :scrutiny: :fire:
 
The SC has gone over the line full throttle. Just look at the way they are deciding these cases:
...stops, "a very few minutes at most," are not too intrusive on motorists.
These are judgement calls by the justices! They are no longer even pretending to be using the Constitution as a measure, they are deciding themselves what they feel is good for the country as they see it. They believe themselves to be not upholders of the law but elites, smarter than others and in a position to use their wisdom to shape the nation. Benevolent dictators.

Tyrants.

- Gabe :fire:
 
I just love roadblocks...

What would be an appropriate response to people who would actually set those up...hmmm...please don't suggest mortars, don't have one available.
 
So what if a motorist is caught up in one of these things and wishes not to participate?

What if they simply tailgate the vehicle in front of them and simply drive past the officer standing there and continue on their way?

Are you required to stop?

What if you pen a sign that states "I do not wish to participate in your roadblock" and hold it up to the window when the officer stops you?

In that event, what if he refuses to allow you to procede?

If so, what if you just sit there and refuse to roll down your window, look at, or speak to the officer that stopped you? You are, after all, merely exercising your Constitutional rights.

To what extent are you required to participate in the roadblock other than your having to stop at the command of an officer and sit there blocking traffic?

How long are you required to stop before your rights have been violated?

How long before those who are stopped behind you have their rights violated by their inability to continue their journey because you are blocking their way?

At what point are you allowed to continue your journey, in difference to the wishes of the officer who stopped you, and simply drive away?

If they then pull you over for refusing to participate in the roadblock, and driving away, does the roadblock become an illegal roadblock?
 
The Constitution of the United States of America, called by many the most wonderful document ever written, may be viewed at the Library of Congress, its final resting place.
 
Sct. Justices apparently confused by inclusion of 'alien' in middle of inalienable as in, 'inalienable rights'.
 
Our problem may be we have too many legal light weights on the USSC.

In the 2002 DC sniper investigation, there were police traffic stops all over the place. Some of them lasted for hours. The traffic stops never captured the killers, who apparently got caught up in a few of them, and drove away.
 
I just remembered I have an ACLU pamphlet concerning what to do if stopped by police. They have some general instructions for all encounters, as well as specific encounters such as when you are in your vehicle.

In your vehicle, they advise:

1. Upon request, show the police your identification and proof of insurance (if that is required).

In certain cases your vehicle can be searched without a search warrant as long as the police have probably cause. To protect yourself later, you should make it clear that you do not consent to a search. It is not lawful for police to arrest you simply for refusing a consent to a search.

2. If you are given a ticket, you should sign it, otherwise you are subject to arrest. You can fight the case in court later.

3. If you are suspected of drunk driving (DWI) and refuse a blood, urine or breath test, your drivers license will be suspended.

For encounters in general, they are really commons sense things to do such as be respectful, stay calm, do not argue, make no statements, keep your hands visbile, don't run, don't touch, don't resist, don't complain. If arrested ask for a lawyer ASAP. And, record and write down everything about the incident ASAP including LEOs ID and witnesses. If injured, seek medical assistnace and take photos of injuries.
 
The major problem I have is; "Who, in authority, can answer my questions? Who do I ask?"

The story stated
Justice Stephen Breyer, writing the majority opinion, said that short stops, "a very few minutes at most," are not too intrusive on motorists. Police may hand out a flyer, or ask drivers to volunteer information about crimes, he said.
Who makes the determination of how many minutes are "a very few"?

Am I allowed to make that determination? After all, doctors have been sued for not seeing patients in a timely manner. At what point am I "officially" inconvenienced?

If I sit there for three minutes -- looking straight ahead, hands on the wheel, car in gear prepared to procede, ignoring the presence of the officer -- can I then procede?

If I do start to procede, and the officer shouts "Stop!", do I have a duty to stop and to what authority?

At the point he prevents me from proceding does the roadblock become illegal?
 
Chipping at the granite of Liberty

This is a small chip in the granite cliff of Liberty, but it is one of the endless millions.
 
My daughter when she was young suffered from seizures when her body temperature reached 100 degrees. The only way to break the seizure was a fast trip to the emergency room. Yea, a few minutes is too long. What happens if you run such a road block?

And the future rebellion against an over-reaching, arrogant, and unaccountable judiciary just advanced one great big step.

The rebellion is taking shape nicely.
 
Justice Stephen Breyer (search), writing the majority opinion, said that short stops, "a very few minutes at most," are not too intrusive on motorists. Police may hand out a flyer, or ask drivers to volunteer information about crimes, he said.
They force you into a roadblock, so you can volunteer information? I'm sure there are people sitting there thinking, "Gee, I witnessed that murder, but calling the police is such a hassle. WOW, what luck! This convenient roadblock let's me tell the police, while not stressing my dialing fingers! Yay!" :rolleyes:
 
I'd be shocked except for that phrase that keeps coming to mind.... "History repeats itself."

J
 
Well, that's funny because the same SCOTUS denied police authorities the right to create roadblocks for ferreting out drunk drivers (if I recall the details correctly; I think that particular case originated in IN).
really? Is it (legally) any different to force "random" cars to pull over at a drunk driving "chekpoint?" My girlfriend and I were stopped like that leaving a concert last summer. Bumper to bumper traffic and the cops were walking out in front of random cars and making them pull into a parking lot. The cop we dealt with just shined her flashlight in our faces and asked if we'd been drinking before letting us go, but I saw at least a few people taking breathalyzers. It wasn't that much of a hassle, but it annoyed me that we were inconvenienced when we'd done nothing wrong in the first place. I wonder what exactly you can do in a situation like that. Drive around the cop? Tell the cop who comes up to the window that you have nothing to say (I bet that'd definitely get you detained)

The wording in the majority decision reminds me of the affirmative action case last year where the court decided that a "compelling state interrest" is enough to deny the civil rights of whites and asians:fire: I think I see a trend starting: "because it's a compelling state interrest for the children, we find that laws requiring registration and banning of firearms can stand." What ever happened to the supreme court upholding the constitution:barf:
 
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