Bore and Muzzle Guides

[fractal7]

Ok, so I think I have a handle on this but still don't quite understand.

The general advice I have read is to always clean from the breech end if possible in which case you would use a bore guide to protect the chamber. But, the crown of the barrel is supposed to be the part that you are really supposed to worry about so what do you do to protect it after you push out a jag/brush? Is it ok to just pull a brass jag back through or do you guys unthread it first? It seems pulling the jag backwards could conceivably hit the crown as well.

 

[LaserSpot]

If you're a benchrest shooter, you probably unthread after every stroke; I just pull it back through.

Here's the brushing method we recommend: Pass the brush all the way out the tube, and unscrew it before the next pass. Brush breech to muzzle only. Do NOT draw the brush back down the bore. (A reverse pass, even with a "clean" brush, just drags fouling residues back into your rod guide, where they can be picked up and passed back into the barrel on the next forward pass.) Clean the brush and wipe off the shaft of the cleaning rod before each pass. After 3-4 brush strokes, run a damp patch through the bore again once or twice. Then run a tight-fitting dry patch to remove the carbon cleaner.

http://www.6mmbr.com/borecleaning.html

 

[Robert Wilson]

The difference is that if you are cleaning from the muzzle you may well be forcing the rod against the muzzle bore. If you are cleaning from the breach the contact between the rod and the muzzle bore will be significantly lighter and is not as likely to cause damage. At least that's the theory...

 

[Art Eatman]

Dunno why the chamber needs any protecting. I've never worried about pulling a brush back through the muzzle; it's only used to break any fouling loose from the barrel. I figure the patch is what actually gets the goop out, which is why I end up using a second or third clean patch after whatever scrubbing has been needed.

I use a brass bore guide if I clean from the muzzle, of course. It's the repeated rubbing through many cleanings by a cleaning rod which can mess up the crown.

Look: For years and years, I cleaned my 26" barrelled Weatherby from the muzzle because I didn't have a cleaning rod long enough to clean from the breech. Howsomever, after around 4,000 rounds through the old critter, it still shoots sub-MOA. Obviously, it ain't been hurt.

 

[rcmodel]

I think muzzle damage or wear is a little over-blown with todays centerfire barrel steels.

Old rifles, like the early Winchesters made before nickle-steel barrels, are often seen with "blunderbus" muzzles with almost all the rifling worn away from cleaning rod wear.

But look at millitary rifles that have to be cleaned from the muzzle, starting with the M1 Garand in WWII.

The Army never issued muzzle guides.
They issued steel, rough phospate coated cleaning rods, in 6" sections that screwed together, leaving a bunch of rough joints.

If they wouldn't damage a muzzle in short order, nothing will.

IMO: Maybe we worry too much.

rc

 

[dagger dog]

I do like to use a Parker Hale style jag instead of a slotted one, that way the dirt and grit from the first several patches through the bore are not drug back through,but rather drops off. I also find that even a full length rod will sometimes catch at the muzzle at the jag-brush joint, when withdrawn from the breech

A lot of the muzle guides made now are plastic with a slot cut for the front sight(if equipped)and a bronze or brass insert to guide the rod down the muzzle without touching the crown.

 

[fractal7]

The difference is that if you are cleaning from the muzzle you may well be forcing the rod against the muzzle bore.

Ah, this is the part I wasn't understanding. So its the fact the side of the rod is going to be rubbing possibly at an angle (and even maybe hitting joints if using a multi piece rod) not necessarily that you might knick it on the way in, although still probably a concern not the main point.

Thanks guys.

 

[Slamfire]

I think muzzle damage or wear is a little over-blown with todays centerfire barrel steels.

Well, maybe, sort of.

I do, and every competition shooter I know, tries his best to protect his muzzle. But after shooting three M1a barrels and a couple of other match barrels, I believe you can go over board on “muzzle protection”

Once you buy a muzzle erosion gage you find out a real nasty: Muzzles erode from shooting.

By the time your throat gages a three, your muzzle gages a one. And that is from shooting.

Do protect your muzzle as much as you can from extra wear, but don’t go overboard in the rituals of cleaning.

 

[taliv]

i pull brushes back through, but not patches. i don't unthread them, but i use my fingers to center it in the bore and push it back, so that i'm not continuously smacking the bottom of the barrel with the threaded end of the jag

 

[Maverick223]

i pull brushes back through, but not patches. i don't unthread them, but i use my fingers to center it in the bore and push it back, so that i'm not continuously smacking the bottom of the barrel with the threaded end of the jag

I do the same, and try to poke it out in the "butter zone" that causes the patch to fall off without the jag completely exiting the bbl, then just pull it back.

I do use a chamber guide, but honestly don't believe that it is that big of a deal, at least not for most rifles. The bbl (with extension) on my LRPR retails for $1375.00 (not a replacement that I am looking forward to), so I figured that the $50.00 or so for a chamber guide was worth the expense. FWIW, it is the only rifle that I use one on.

 

[stubbicatt]

keeripes! really? any degradation in accuracy from lack of such meticulous cleaning rituals is likely overshadowed by the inherent error in holding the rifle for a shot from field positions. I understand benchrest shooting, tho never really had an interest in theoretical accuracy.

If you can hold 2 MOA with an accurate rifle you get all X's. With a 2 MOA rifle, all 10's.

How if at all does this make a difference?

Man. Sometimes I really wonder...

 

[taliv]

If you can hold 2 MOA with an accurate rifle you get all X's. With a 2 MOA rifle, all 10's.

except that the x ring for F-class 600 yrd target is 3 inches, not 1 foot, and the xring for 1000 yrd targets is 5 inches, not 20.

so, if you can hold 1/2 MOA, then your rifle/ammo would need to be capable of putting all 20 rounds through one centered hole in order to get all X's.

 

[briansmithwins]

If you really want to prevent wear to a rifle barrel, don't shoot it. Every time you pull the trigger you're blasting the throat with hot gas and particles of burning powder!

I believe most people over think the whole barrel cleaning thing: get grit out before you shoot, use a brush with some solvent to loosen up carbon, patch dry, and store with a light coat of oil. Occasionally use a copper fouling remover.

I've been using pull thru type 'rods' as they are easier to use to clean a rifle with, store easily, and unless abused won't cause wear to the bore or crown.

BSW

 

[cuervo]

Some folks from the GCA did a cleaning rod test on a Garand and here is a summary from another board:

GCA Journal did an interesting test on muzzle erosion. They basicly took a standard 4 segment military style cleaning rod and ran it thru a 2.0 gaged garand barrel(very good to excellent) with a goal to see how many strokes it would take to get to 3.0 (very good to good). They took no special care using the rod and could feel and hear all the segments each time the rod was inserted and withdrawn. It took 60,000 strokes to get to 3.0. They shot the rifle before and after and found very little if any change in the groups. Their conclusion is if you use a good one piece coated rod and a little care and you will have no negitive impact on the muzzle.

As others have said, unless you are a benchrest shooter and can really support the rifle, you are going to lose more accuracy just holding and by shooting your rifle than be cleaning it.

 

[Maverick223]

...you are going to lose more accuracy just holding and by shooting your rifle than be cleaning it.

I agree that shooting it causes greater wear than cleaning it with any amount of care, but how in the heck does holding it deteriorate accuracy?

 

[Ignition Override]

Let's say that your cleaning rod is plastic, with a 1 1/2" brass 'female' section at the end, into which you screw the remaining plastic tip-the grooved section broke off.

The tiny plastic tip (from Bass Pro) pushes a patch, so does any measurable scratching takes place if pushed very slowly into the muzzle?