Bought a early to mid 1800's 2x2 12ga. last night.

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Howdy

OK, here is the scoop on Damascus barrels.

Before the technology existed to bore a straight hole down a solid steel blank for a barrel, there were various techniques used to make a gun barrel.

With a rifle, it was common to take a flat piece of iron, yes iron not steel, and heat it and form it around a mandrel. There would be one welded seam running the length of the barrel.

Then various reamers would be used to straighten the bore and make it uniform. Next, it would be rifled. Finally, the outer shape would be filed by hand, usually in an octagonal configuration.

Damascus shotgun barrels were made quite differently. First, lengths of iron and steel would be welded together in long strips. The strips were usually made up of several alternating layers of iron and steel. Next, the strips would be heated and run through rollers to stretch them out in length, and compress them in cross section. After this was done a couple of times the strips were heated again and twisted like taffy, so the pattern of each strip resembled a barber pole. The pattern of dark and light on the strips would vary with the layup of each strip. Finally, the twisted strips would be wrapped around a mandrel and heated to weld the borders of the strips together into a barrel. After that, reamers straightened the bore and gave it a smooth finish. The outside of the barrel could be filed by hand or turned on a lathe to final shape.

The point is, the way the strips were stretched and twisted, there are literally hundreds of feet of welds in any Damascus barrel. After the barrel had been finished, and before fitting it into a firearm, it would be proofed. Loaded with a proof charge of powder and fired. The barrel would have been fired remotely, in case it gave way. If it survived, it was in proof. If not, at least a completed firearm would not be destroyed.

Here is the thing. That barrel was probably proofed many, many years ago. In the intervening years, corrosion could possibly have crept in and attacked the hundreds of feet of welds. The only way to know if it is still safe to shoot is to load it with a sizeable load of powder and shot, tie it down to an old tire, point it someplace safe, and pull the triggers remotely with a string. If it survives, it is probably safe to shoot with that load. I say probably because you never know that at some point something might break the camel's back. If it does not survive, at least you were not holding it when the barrel, or barrels let go.

Yes, absolutely, only try this with Black Powder, don't let any Smokeless powder anywhere near it. I would stay away from the substitutes too, particularity 777, which has more punch than regular Black Powder.

Frankly, if it were mine I would hang it on the wall and not risk firing it.

Don't get me wrong, I have lots of antique firearms that I shoot with Black Powder all the time.

But I don't even want to own a Damascus barrelled shotgun. All my antiques have cylinders and barrels machined from solid steel. A few from iron.

P.S. You may be advised to bring it to an auto shop and have them use a machine to vibrate it to look for cracks in the welds. This will not identify corrosion between welds that have not broken through to the surface.

Here is a link the most authoritative article on the subject that I have found.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/gunther1.htm
 
Btw.
Do you know why they are called barrels?
The earliest firearms were made with long strips of metal or bamboo or even wood that were then formed into a tube and then they had hoops put around them to maintain that shape. The same process that was used to make barrels for water etc. So firearms obtained thier "barrels".

And yes, I know of the danger inherent in the type of barrels used in this shotgun.
I will probably take it to the local black powder shop and have thier gunsmith check it out. From the looks of it however, to seems it was VERY well made and VERY well cared for.
If it appears to have issues, then I may have it sleeved.
Thanks for the input however!
 
Neat gun!!! I hope the test shots go well with it. I have a Bannerman Shotgun made out of a Springfield Musket that I plan to test fire and hopefully do some dove hunting with in the spring season.
 
Shot a Damascus double ML at trap for many years. As time went on i got to thinking despite the platinum blow plugs the next shot might be a disaster. Became too much to think about and broke down and replaced it with a Pedersoli for peace of mind.
 
Did the other 4 guys have one too? Seems that might 'disrupt the harmony of the shoot' as the ATA rules put it.....;) Sounds like fun, though!
 
Took it in to the local BP shop on Mon. and had it checked out. The smith said it was very high quality Damascus and short of a few minor issues, it was in good shape and I should feel OK firing it.
Fixed the issues and cleaned it up well.
Took it out today and it worked GREAT with my home made black powder. :)
 
Back in the day companies in Belgium made guns with names very close to famous ones I'm sure to make U.S. buyers think they were the real thing
 
Nice guns, but like wap41 said, a Belgian made "imitation" of Purdey's best. Still, a nice gun. I've been on the look out for one, but so far nothing has come into my price range. Hopefully, yours will be in shooting shape and you'll really get to enjoy it.

Mac
 
BTW.
The only issues the smith found were the nipples were mushroomed. I was able to fix that with a file.
And it turned out that whomever cleaned it last, didn't clean it well.
I found that out the first time I tried firing it. The flame wasn't reaching the powder. The breach was all plugged up under the nipples. Once I got that issue solved, it fired like a champ!

Used 100 grains of home made BP and about 1 1/4 oz of #7 shot. A over powder card, a cushion wad, and a over shot card.
 
Brutuskend said:
..., and it looks like it is in VERY good shape.
Click to expand...
PapaG said:
One serious suggestion. Find someone with a bore scope and check the breech area. Many of these old timers have serious erosion at the breechplug/barrel interface and can let go even with black powder.
Click to expand...

I second the suggestion, AND I think I know why it's in such good external shape, ...

I think the seller took off the barrel and locks and trigger guard, and submerged them in Evaporust. o_O
Not that it's a bad thing, as I would do the same myself if I was going to use it mainly as a shooter. The problem is, Evaporust does a very nice job on metal by removing rust, but as a buyer a person might think the inside was as reasonably good as the outside...it may be, or as the second quote above, it may not be. Double check please!

The dull, sorta "unpolished pewter" color was what brought on my suspicions. Evaporust causes the steel to do that right after rinsing and drying, before minor buffing. If the guy buffed the piece, it would be obvious, right? So some sellers will remove the rust, dry, and then oil the metal, rather than doing any sort of buffing, as that would further remove "patina".

Who knows, it's a Purdy, and may have been well cared for over the centuries. Good Luck!

LD
 
Pretty sure it's not a Purdey brand shotgun, I think brutuskend made an unintentional pun while trying to use the colloquial 'purdy' as in 'Gosh, you shore is a purdy gurl' by adding the 'e' in Purdy.
 
It has been checked out by a black powder gun smith. A Since then, I have fired it about a doz. times with both black powder and substitute with no problems.

As stated before, at some point in it's life some gunsmith tried to pass it off as a Purdey by stamping "Purdy London" on it. I don't know if he couldn't spell, or it he stamped Purdy instead of Purdey so he couldn't be accused of counterfeiting it. However, since it is a Belgian gun and not English, one could assume he just didn't know it was misspelled?

And yes, I typed Purdey in place of pretty as a sort of joke. Though maybe I should have typed Purdy? ;)

At any rate. The gun works very well, it hasn't blown up on me and I am very happy with it. :)

I don't think the seller de-rusted it at all because there it a bit of rust under the barrel where it locks into the breach and I get a very fine powdering of rust on the ramrod when seating the cards and cushioning wads. I have been keeping the loads on the light side as well.
 
You may have better results with your loads if you square them, equal shot to powder by volume. Made a world of difference on my sxs. I was using around 80 grains of powder to 1 1/8 #7 shot and had a big hole in the pattern from both barrels, square loads solved the problem. Try it, ain't gonna hurt anything.
 
BTW.
I have thought about "re aciding" the Damascus to bring out the pattern.

Your thoughts?
 
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