Boy, 5, killed playing with gun (Sacramento)

Status
Not open for further replies.

esheato

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2003
Messages
2,783
Location
NoVa
Boy, 5, killed playing with gun
The pistol was taken from an unlocked nightstand and fired by the victim's teenage cousin, police say.
Link

Child's play turned deadly Friday afternoon when a gun went off in a North Sacramento home, killing a 5-year-old boy, authorities said.
The shooting occurred as two children were playing with plastic swords and a loaded pistol in a bedroom of a house in the 200 block of Olmstead Way, said Sacramento police spokesman Sgt. Justin Risley.

The gun fired, hitting Josh Lee in the face. His 13-year-old cousin pulled the trigger, Risley said.
The boys had taken the .380-caliber semiautomatic pistol from an unlocked nightstand. The gun belonged to Josh's father, Risley said.

"The cousin had removed the clip thinking he had unloaded the weapon," Risley said. "Not being familiar with an automatic weapon, he wasn't aware that there was one still in the chamber. He fired a round, unintentionally striking the victim in the head."

The two boys live at the residence, and both had stayed home sick Friday from school, he said. Josh's parents were at work when the shooting occurred.

Neighbor Dee Tamasoa was at home when the boy's uncle frantically knocked on her door about 3:30 p.m.

"He asked if he could use the phone, saying Josh had been shot," Tamasoa recalled.

She followed the uncle next door with a portable phone. Inside, she said, she saw Josh lying on a couch next to his hysterical grandmother.

"I couldn't look at the little boy," Tamasoa said, having glanced at his wound.

Dispatchers were on the phone, giving the uncle CPR instructions.

"He was pumping the boy's chest with one hand, with the other he held the phone," she said. "When we felt for a pulse we didn't find anything."

Tamasoa, who has three children of her own, said her 6-year-old son frequently played with Josh, who was a kindergartner at a nearby school.

"It's scary" she said.

Police and firefighters arrived to find Josh barely clinging to life. He was taken to UC Davis Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead.

The cousin was taken to a Sacramento mental health facility Friday night after threatening to injure himself.

"We are concerned for his safety and emotional instability after the incident," Risley said.

Investigators recovered the weapon from the nightstand.

The investigation report will be forwarded to the district attorney for review. Prosecutors will determine whether the parents will be charged as a result of the unsecured weapon, Risley said.

Sgt. Paul Freeman said he heard the initial call, which came in as a 3-year-old with a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Freeman has a 3-year-old son and a 1-year-old daughter.

"As I was hearing the details I was getting a sinking feeling in my stomach," he said. "Immediately I thought about my own kids."

Freeman said that as an officer he keeps a gun at home. He and his wife frequently have talked about the danger it poses to his children. To protect them, he keeps the gun secured in a gun safe.

"The Police Department just had a campaign that promoted gunlocks," Freeman said, "but we still have kids playing with guns."

Gunlocks are accessible to the public through Project ChildSafe, a national program that hands out the locks through law enforcement agencies.

"This is a real tragedy, but these types of things are preventable," Risley said.

Citizens interested in gunlocks should contact their local law enforcement agency, he said.

----------------------------------
All in all, not a bad story. The article came straight from the Sacramento Bee and I would have expected some anti comments in it, but it's fairly neutral. Of course, this was completely preventable, but kids will be kids.

Ed
 
13 years old is definitely old enough to know better. His father and/or mother should have taught him. If they did teach him, then it's the kid's fault.

Kid should also know to stay the ^&*( out of Mom & Dad's room.
 
esheato,

Thanks for posting this article. When I first saw it, I called my boys (14, 12, 10, 9, 8) over to the computer and read it to them. They have all known the rules for years, but a sobering reminder from time to time is a good thing.

Now I feel really guilty, because my 8 year old burst into tears and said to me, "Mom, we know the rules. Now I'm just all sad! You should have told us a story that didn't really happen."

Nevertheless, we went over the rules again, and discussed why "all guns are always loaded" was a good rule, and why it's important not to point a real gun at anything you don't intend to shoot.

Not all teachable moments are pleasant ones.

pax
 
13 years old is definitely old enough to know better. His father and/or mother should have taught him.

Yup. I had all that stuff ingrained into my brain when I was 6 or 7. It's a shame if they didn't teach him anything. On the other hand, there's no excuse for leaving a loaded gun unlocked. Especially with a round in the chamber. Seems like that's just asking for trouble.
 
Are they considered taboo up there? That's about 8 hours north of me. They aren't considered that taboo down here, though we are definitely not allowed to get a CCW. I would imagine their opinions on guns up there to be similar to opinions down here.

They are actually much closer to one of the few counties that will grant citicens CCW than I am.
 
"The cousin had removed the clip thinking he had unloaded the weapon," Risley said. "Not being familiar with an automatic weapon, he wasn't aware that there was one still in the chamber. He fired a round, unintentionally striking the victim in the head."

I wish police seargents could do better than this. Normal people read this crap and don't know the difference.

So does anyone find the fact that this occurred in an area were guns would be considered taboo illustrative of anything?

There's lots of gun stores around Sacramento, and it's easy enough to buy guns, but apply to the Sheriff's Dept for a CCW and you'll be waiting a while. Unless you know someone, that is. Sacramento's political stance is very anti-gun and they were in on the group lawsuits against gun makers.
 
Plinkerton
On the other hand, there's no excuse for leaving a loaded gun unlocked. Especially with a round in the chamber. Seems like that's just asking for trouble.
I have to disagree with that one. If the children are taught properly, then there's no need to lock up the gun. What happens if a situation arises where the child needs to use the gun? This incident is an example of why one should simply teach the child and leave the gun unlocked: Shouldn't we repeal the gun laws ... if it'll save a single child?
 
But, but, but

But, but, but... this state requires all guns to be sold with a safety lock!

:rolleyes:

This shouldn't happen to any child. The parent who left the gun loaded and didn't teach his child proper gun safety is to blame here, but I bet they end up suing the manufacturer. Pitiful.
 
Cannibal:

Okay, I will definitely agree with you then. BUT, if it was in my house, I would have to be completely confident in my kids that they would know better. ALSO, what about their friends? I would definitely not be able to trust their friends with gun safety, especially if it concerned my child's safety. I would much rather be able to leave a loaded gun unlocked in my house, and have a kid who knows how to use it well, in case it was needed.

Something would have to be done though, besides my child just telling the other kid not too, to prevent my kid's friend from getting the gun.

On a personal note, I grew up with unlocked loaded guns in my house. My dad taught me everything, and I never even THOUGHT about screwing around with a gun, and still don't. So, I don't think kids are stupid, and will inevitably kill someone! :)

EDIT: Just to add, after reading that article, I figured I should clarify on my stance. I BY NO MEANS think it should be THE LAW to keep the guns locked. I think it can be a very good idea, but I don't really think people should have to if they don't want to.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for posting this article. When I first saw it, I called my boys (14, 12, 10, 9, 8) over to the computer and read it to them. They have all known the rules for years, but a sobering reminder from time to time is a good thing.

pax,

Your welcome. I'm glad you're using it to your advantage. Every parent should be as helpful and thoughtful as you are. He won't remember the crying, but he'll remember the rules.

Sacramento is bad for guns, but where I'm at it's very tolerant. I'm approximately 50 minutes north of the capital. Lots of people shoot and the police are pretty friendly about it. In fact, they give out CCW's up here like you're applying for a drivers license. Fill out the paperwork, background check, 8-hour class, and you're good to go. Now only if the rest of California would follow along. :rolleyes:

Ed
 
Hey Ed, completely hypothetical, but how easy/legal would it be to obtain a CCW from up there, if you live down south of there. Santa Barbara area?
 
Bear,

It takes longer than that. It may only take a few minutes to tell them the rules and get them to repeat the rules back to you, but it takes a lot longer to have the rules sink in. (Think of it -- how many guys on this forum, gun nuts all, have had NDs from a moment's inattention to the rules?)
"The cousin had removed the clip thinking he had unloaded the weapon," Risley said.
That was the part that caught my eye and made me call my boys over. All of them have been around guns enough now that they know how to load, unload, and check to see if the gun is loaded. Reading the article, it is just barely possible that the 13 year old had been taken to the range and taught how a gun works. He may have even been exposed to the Four Rules, as rote learning or maybe as range rules. If so, he didn't bring the rules home with him. And he killed his little cousin because of it.

In any case, that the kid removed the magazine puts this is a somewhat different category from a kid who picks up a gun, assumes it is unloaded (or doesn't think about it), and starts playing with it. This kid knew just enough to think that he had unloaded the gun.

What happened here was a lot more scary to me as a responsible gun owning parent than most of the other tragic tales I read in the paper, because it could have happened to a reasonably responsible family who hadn't quite finished the job of gun proofing the kids.

It isn't enough to teach them the rules. They've got to be taught the why behind the rules, and that's got to be reinforced well enough that the safety rules will stick even when the kid is disobeying other rules (like "don't touch things that don't belong to you.") That's a longer process than just getting them to chant the rules, but it's vitally important.

pax

A little learning is a dangerous thing. -- Alexander Pope
 
Langenator said:

13 years old is definitely old enough to know better. His father and/or mother should have taught him. If they did teach him, then it's the kid's fault.

Kid should also know to stay the ^&*( out of Mom & Dad's room.

Yes 13 is old enough to know better, but they often don't. And even when properly trained children that age are often affected with sudden selective disreguard for training and rules.

I took my step kids to the range and desert as often as I could. Teaching them gun safety and proper gun handling. But.........I still put a strong entry lock set on my bedroom door. Just to prevent the selective disreguard for household rules.

Joe
 
oooops

pax, I didn't mean 30 minutes total. I guess I didn't word it correctly.

I was referring to Ayoob's book Gunproof Your Children, after you read it, it will only take 30 minutes to have "the talk" that will get them started down the path of safety.
But as with any life lesson it needs regular reinforcement.

I appologize for any misunderstanding.
 
completely hypothetical, but how easy/legal would it be to obtain a CCW from up there, if you live down south of there. Santa Barbara area?

Plinkerton,

I wish there was a "CCW Loophole" and that I could help ya out, but I don't know any way around it. I lucked out when I moved to a gun friendly county. My best suggestion is to talk to Jim March. I'm sorry, but I don't know of any other way.

Ed
 
Hmmmm

Guns are a weapon. People need to teach others and their children how to properly handly them. These are true.

What of the poisons we purchase everyday? We use poison to clean our homes. We use poisons in our yards. We use poison in our cars cooling systems. Children die every week for poisoning.

This is a very sad story. Just as it is sad anytime an accident occurs. Who is to blame? Yes the parents had some responsibilty. Just as when a baby dies from poisons (cleaning chemicals) accidently injested the parents are responsible. The pan and sadness they feel inside can't be measured. The boy who throught he new the gun was unloaded will never be the same.

It's really sad is that 5 minutes of teaching could have prevented this from occurring.
 
On a personal note, I grew up with unlocked loaded guns in my house. My dad taught me everything, and I never even THOUGHT about screwing around with a gun, and still don't.
I agree with you Plinkerton. My Dad kept his guns (rifles/shotguns) in the corner of his bedroom. I was not allowed in that room period and I was not allowed to touch a gun unless an adult (family member) was supervising.

I NEVER considered touching a gun and neither did any relative or visitor (around my age) either.

I finally got my own gun and soon thereafter my Dad re-introduced me to his guns again (except for the 12 gauge that I was afraid of!), showed me where the ammo was and told me that I COULD use them in an emergency if someone's life was threatened. He explained how serious it was and how he knew he could trust me to use good judgement and not let him down. - I never did. I never would have.

But as they say - times are different now. We KNEW everyone who might be at our house and trusted them too. Today, it is a lot easier to have a "friend" come home from school - a friend that we don't know nor do we necessarily know the parents.

It depends on your situation but I prefer to train my children properly and trust them. If I can't .... then it's a different story.

Logistar
 
very tragic accident...

I saw it on the news, the family was southeast asian called the "HMONG"
gun accidents with that group seems to be very common? just a few months ago another HMONG teenager shot his cousin with a shotgun and killed him, these people need to supervise their more and learn safe gun handling, it's amazing how ignorant Hmongs are with firearms, Ive seen some walk down range while others were still firing guns.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top