BP pistols

[AugustusMcCrae]

So for the 1858 it's the .454 round ball but for the Old Army model, you need the .457 ball.

Is that right? If yes, what else do I need to get started? I like the idea of the Old Army pistol because of the modern metals & methods used for better results but I didn't see it's ammunition on CTD.

 

[ArmedBear]

Yes, that's right.

If you get a powder flask, some Pyrodex, some olive oil, cleaning supplies (probably just BP solvent or something if you already have centerfire cleaning kit), WonderWads and a can of percussion caps, you can go shooting.

 

[mike101]

"Mike101, at the link you posted, it said the Ruger "Old Army" is chambered in .45 blackpowder. Is that easy to find?"

Sure is, Gus. It takes a .457 ball, made by Hornady, Speer, and Buffalo Bullet Co.. The Rugers are extrermely popular, and tough as nails. Trouble free as your going to find, also. There are .45 Colt cartridge conversion cylinders available from www.kirstkonverter.com., and R&D, available at www.midwayusa.com.. Actually, the conversion cylinders are available for Pietta and Ubertis, also. Buffalo Bullet also makes conical bullets for all of them.

 

[Jamie C.]

Do keep in mind that all modern replicas are made using "modern metals & methods". It's just that the Ruger is a modern design as well, where the Colt, Remington and other historical copies try to duplicate the original design. Nothing other than a non-firing "wall hanger' is going to be made from cast iron, etc. ( The brass-framed guns are the exception here... they're sort of "wall hangers" that can be fired, to my mind. )

Also, one of the essential pieces of equipment you'll need before you shoot is a nipple wrench, since you'll want to completely disassemble the gun to clean it afterwards.


J.C.

 

[mike101]

Well, .457 may be "odd sized", but everybody who carries lead balls has them. People have used .454 in Rugers, also, including myself, but .457 is a better fit. The Rugers are very popular, as I said, so you won't have any problem finding whatever you need. I would recommend Reminton #10 caps, as well, for best fit.

Whoever asked about the necessity of going through an FFL, not necessary in almost every state. Whoever asked about PA, no problem at all.

RE: Cabellas, their prices are not so great. Bud's Gun Shop is the cheapest for the Ruger that I know of.

 

[AugustusMcCrae]

I've made a decision. I'm going to go ahead & get the Old Army version. Thanks for all your suggestions & advice.

I'll try to take some pictures when I get it. Should I get the stainless model or the blued version? What's the cheapest place to get one from? Is it worth it to get a used version or am I better off getting a new one?

 

[ArmedBear]

If you have other BP .44's and/or mold them yourself (much cheaper than commercial bullets if you can find the lead), .457 is odd-sized. If you have a few guns that shoot .454, and the molds for .454, a gun that wants .457 becomes less attractive. I never knew why Ruger did that. Are they sharing barrels with the Blackhawk or something?

However, if the ROA is your only gun, it doesn't matter, as mike said.

 

[mike101]

Good choice, Gus. YES, GET THE STAINLESS!!! Much easier to deal with. Hell, you can even refinish the thing with synthetic steel wool, when it gets beat up!

Bud's gun shop has the best price for a new one. Don't even waste your time trying to find a cheaper one on the web. I've already wasted said time.

If you want to get into molding your own balls/bullets, Lee makes molds for both, and it is a lot cheaper. They even have a hollow-point mold (conical) for the Old Army. They also make molds for the Remmies and Colts.

Now, if you do decide to eventually start molding your own, the lead might be a concern. Just make sure you do it in a decently ventilated area. If you do it on the range, just turn the exhaust fan on. That's what I do. I have not yet sustained any dain bramage.

 

[AugustusMcCrae]

I actually have an outdoor range in my backyard.

I'm glad to hear you reccomend the stainless as that's what I've been leaning toward. It just looks beautiful to me.

 

[mike101]

New Or Used?

You're probably going to pay about $300-325, give or take, for a used one. Check www.gunsamerica.com. About $450 from Bud's, for a new one. I would say, it depends on your budget. A used one is a pretty safe bet, as these are built tough.

When Bill Ruger decided he wanted to build a cap and ball revolver, he told his engineers that it had to be as strong as a Super Blackhawk (.44 Magnum), and at least as accurate. So, it just depends on what you want to spend.

Enjoy!

 

[ArmedBear]

mike-

But do know the history of why Ruger decided on a chamber size that's just a few thousandths different from standard?

 

[mike101]

PS- Rather than Pyrodex, I would go with Triple 7, also made by Hogden. It develops a bit more pressure than Pyrodex (more power), and it contains no sulpher, so it is easier to clean, and it doesn't smell as bad. It's less corrosive, too.

Armed Bear, I always wondered why the Rugers used a larger diameter barrel too. I'm pretty sure that they do share a barrel with the .45 Blackhawk, and now, Vaquero, but they could have used the .44 Super Blackhawk barrel as well. It's a mystery.

 

[ArmedBear]

They probably couldn't just use the SBH barrel and a .451/.451 round ball.

.44 Magnum is more like a .429" bore, whereas the bore of a .44 BP revolver is really .44" AFAIK.

It would make perfect sense if they share the barrel with the .45LC Blackhawk, though. I'll go with that theory. When the ROA came out, BP revolvers weren't exactly a mature market, either, so they probably didn't figure it would matter one way or another.

 

[mike101]

ROA

I always wondered why he didn't just go ahead, and make it a copy of the '58 Remmie on the outside, and use the 3 Screw Blackhawk lockworks on the inside. It looks so much like the Remmie anyway.

I always liked the Remmie one-piece cylinder/grip frame. You can drive nails with it.

I don't know if you saw this the other day. US Firearms in Hartford is coming out with re-issues of the '58 and '75 Remingtons, under an agreement with Remington. It'll be available in blue, and bright nickel. Oooooh. Don't know how much $$$, yet.

 

[ArmedBear]

Aestehtic musings...

I always wondered why he didn't just go ahead, and make it a copy of the '58 Remmie on the outside, and use the 3 Screw Blackhawk lockworks on the inside. It looks so much like the Remmie anyway.

I have thought exactly that, myself, or at least retain a more Remington-like appearance, like the Bearcat has.

To me, a Remmie-shaped frame with a Colt-style grip frame has always looked "wrong" somehow. The Rogers & Spencer lever/pin design with Remington web looks good as-is, but I really think I'd like the ROA better with an octagon barrel.

The three original cap-and-ball revolvers most similar to the ROA had them, and they seem to be popular in the BH/Vaquero aftermarket as well.

 

[ArmedBear]

no sulpher, so it is easier to clean, and it doesn't smell as bad

But that just doesn't seem right.

 

[johnnytang24]

Ok, the store I went to after work had a Traditions Rem 1858 for $220. Is the Traditions a decent gun? Should I find an Uberti elsewhere? I don't need competition level accuracy, but I don't want a gun that will fall apart either.

Thanks.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

If you get the Remington, get one of these cylinder loading stands like this one http://www.possibleshop.com/cap-ball-supplies.htm . It is the second one. It takes all of about 10 sec to pull the cylinder and this makes loading so much easier in my opinion. When I go shooting I carry my gear in stacking milk crates, one with a piece of plywood cut larger than the milk crates. Stack 3 high, wood on top and you have an instant loading table. With this and the cylinder loader makes for quick and easy loading. Not fancy but cheap and portable.
I too use Triple 7 in my Pietta Remington. I have found 23 grains works good in mine, I can use more but all I get is more noise and recoil. I also use a.454 round ball, shaves a nice thin ring of lead when loading.

 

[ArmedBear]

I'd get the Uberti for a few more bucks.

WRT the stand, I have one I just bought. However, I've used the loading lever on the gun until now, and it works. You don't NEED the stand, but it's a cool accessory. Get an extra cylinder, and you have a cowboy speedloader.

 

[DixieTexian]

johnnytang, the traditions Remington is probaly made by Pietta. It should say so on the side of the barrel. The new ones, I think, are good, but I would have someone with experience look at a used one before buying.

 

[mike101]

Armedbear

How about a .50 Old Army, with an octagonal barrel?

http://www.gunblast.com/Cumpston_ClementsFugett.htm

PS-Gus

Another nice thing about the Old Army- If you want to get fancier grips for it, they're easy to find. It takes the same grips as the New Model Blackhawk, which isn't so new, and I think the Vaquero. Everybody makes grips for the Blackhawk, and they'll fit right out of the box. No hand-fitting required.

 

[Timthinker]

Augustus McCrae, I agree with the other members who urge you to purchase the ROA. I discovered my old Ruger would outshoot all other blackpowder revolvers I have fired. You will not regret purchasing a Ruger.

That said, I noticed you are considering a BP weapon for self-defense. I must state that a modern semi-auto or revolver would be a better choice. Granted, a BP firearm can serve as a "man-stopper", but there are more reliable choices available. This is not intended as a criticism of the ROA, which I consider the finest muzzleloading revolver available, but I believe that a BP gun handicaps you in a life-and-death situation compared to other firearms.


Timthinker

 

[AugustusMcCrae]

I just wanted a BP revolver that would be able to use for SD if needed.

I have an AK as my primary HD gun. In my state of NC, you must be 21 to own a pistol that uses fixed ammunition but BP guns are alright. No legal loopholes will work here.

 

[GunTech]

Ruger Old Army does in fact take 0.457 ball or conicals. I'm not sure that classifies as a weird size, just non-traditional.

If you don;t care about a histoprical design, the Ruger is a very good pistol, particularly the stainless version. The sights are first rate - much better than any 'authentic' model.

The Remington 1858 is a very good design, and is much easier to 'field strip' than the Colt Guns. You can also carry extra loaded cylinders. My personal favorite is the Colt 1860 Army, but mostly for esthetic reasons.

For those who doubt the stopping power of BP revolvers, keep in mind that Wild Bill Hickock used 36 caliber Colt Navys to dispatch a number fo people, and the 44 Walker was the most powerful handgun until the introdiction of the 357 magnum.

A 44 caliber BP revolver with pure lead balls or conical bullets should be more than adequate for self defense, although it would be far from my first choice. BP revolvers do have the advantage of not being firearms under federal law.

 

[ArmedBear]

I'm not sure that classifies as a weird size, just non-traditional.

It's just a unique size; again that matters only if you have multiple pistols of different designs and want them to share ammo. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, at all.

How about a .50 Old Army, with an octagonal barrel?

It looks like a neat custom, and I really think it's attractive, too, with that barrel on it!