N555
Member
Here is another lawyer’s take on it, and it’s a little discomforting.
That's in a nut shell what I think is going to happen.
Here is another lawyer’s take on it, and it’s a little discomforting.
Welcome to THR. As you can see if you read the other responses in this thread, the rule has not been finalized. There are many pistols with braces on dealers' shelves and in the wild that may be reclassified at some point, but at this time there is no new rule to enforce. Once the final rule is filed, a copy will be linked here. Most expect that there will be a window of time to bring non-compliant devices into compliance or register as an SBR. Until that time it serves no purpose to speculate on what that rule will be nor on the compliance window.To add to the confusion, Palmetto State Armory is still selling complete AR, AK Pistols and kits and it is now 2023. If I happen to buy an AR pistol now ( and my new state only does Brady background checks) am I potentially breaking the law? I agree with the poster that says he's not doing anything until something is finalized.
You can't use a Form 1 to make a rifle. A Form 1 is for making an NFA firearm, one type is Short Barreled Rifle......... I personally would not use a form one to register my legally purchased pistol, to declare it a rifle.
Neither of which has anything to do with anything. If your pistol with an arm brace fails to meet the criteria in the ATF worksheet and is determined to be an NFA firearm your 4473 and receipts won't save you.Of course, saving reciepts and copies of form 4473 will be my standard practice.
A stripped AR lower, an AR lower with a shoulder stock are "Other firearms", recorded on the Form 4473 as a receiver. They do not meet the definition of handgun or long gun because they are not either a handgun or long gun.I'm thinking most of the AR pistol/SBR debate is caused because people will buy naked AR lowers from their FFL as a rifle, then assemble it as a pistol.
No, you wouldn't for the reasons above.I would buy the frame as a pistol ( form 4473, and dealer's reciepts) and go from there.
What amnesty?I think that is where this whole AR pistol SBR amnesty comes from.
1. You cannot buy a receiver as a rifle. A firearm frame or receiver is a firearm frame or receiver because they do not meet the definition of rifle or pistol in federal law.If you buy the receiver as a rifle, and configure it as a pistol, then yes, it is an SBR and needs a tax stamp.
A stripped AR lower, an AR lower with a shoulder stock are "Other firearms", recorded on the Form 4473 as a receiver. They do not meet the definition of handgun or long gun because they are not either a handgun or long gun.
Any dealer who transfers an AR lower as a handgun or long gun is doing so illegally. The Form 4473 instructions to Question 24 are explicit.
No, you wouldn't for the reasons above.
What amnesty?
1. You cannot buy a receiver as a rifle. A firearm frame or receiver is a firearm frame or receiver because they do not meet the definition of rifle or pistol in federal law.
I know that for instance, in California, an AR cannot be legally sold as a pistol. The state background forms will only allow even bare receivers to be sold as rifles. There are No AR pistols on their Roster of approved handguns that can be sold.
The term "Amnesty" that I'm referring to comes from federal forms being considered to convert your AR pistol into a legal SBR. This came from the video of the lawyer in the video from a few posts back.
And?All I know is that AR pistols are still being marketed and sold by wholesalers, and dealers now in Jan 2023.
That's because ATF never made any such determination to begin with. You can't have a "redetermination" unless you first had a determination.I didn't see any December update to ATF's redetermination of AR pistols as SBR's.
What a state may require has no effect on federal law or ATF regulations or the dealers duty to follow ATF regulations in transferring a firearm. If State X requires a firearm frame or receiver to be designated as a handgun or rifle by the dealer.....that isn't done on the Form 4473.Many state forms require the FFL to designate wether a firearm sold is a pistol or a rifle.
I'm thinking most of the AR pistol/SBR debate is caused because people will buy naked AR lowers from their FFL as a rifle, then assemble it as a pistol.
I would buy the frame as a pistol ( form 4473, and dealer's reciepts) and go from there.
I think that is where this whole AR pistol SBR amnesty comes from. If you buy the receiver as a rifle, and configure it as a pistol, then yes, it is an SBR and needs a tax stamp.
1. You cannot buy a receiver as a rifle. A firearm frame or receiver is a firearm frame or receiver because they do not meet the definition of rifle or pistol in federal law.
2. A receiver with a shoulder stock can legally be made into a pistol by removing the shoulder stock before attaching a barrel.....no tax stamp needed because it isn't an NFA firearm.
Well that doesn't mean a dealer can mark "Long gun" on the 4473.I know that for instance, in California, an AR cannot be legally sold as a pistol.
So?The state background forms will only allow even bare receivers to be sold as rifles.
So guess what.......Californians won't have to worry about whether their AR pistol with an arm brace can pass the ATF worksheet will they?There are No AR pistols on their Roster of approved handguns that can be sold.
ATF doesn't have the authority to declare an "amnesty" and exempt people from taxes imposed by Congress.The term "Amnesty" that I'm referring to comes from federal forms being considered to convert your AR pistol into a legal SBR. This came from the video of the lawyer in the video from a few posts back.
1. a general pardon for offenses, especially political offenses, against a government, often granted before any trial or conviction.
2. Law. an act of forgiveness for past offenses, especially to a class of persons as a whole.
3. a forgetting or overlooking of any past offense.
Nonsense.... A firearm legally transfered to a buyer as a "Pistol", cannot subsequently be redefined or reclassified as an SBR, with penalties imposed for not complying with an administrative reclassification by ATF.
If you have a Glock 17, add a shoulder stock........you have an SBR.
Currently, no one is in violation of any federal law or ATF regulation by attaching an arm brace to a pistol. If this regulation is implemented in the future, the ATF can't go back and charge you with a violation that wasn't a violation before the regulatory change. That's called ex post facto.
In the context of contraband items, that would require a "grandfather clause", which is not in the cards here.
And?????The NFA was passed by an act of Congress.
The Current Pistol/SBR debate is an internal ATF administrative crap sandwich.
Here is another lawyer’s take on it, and it’s a little discomforting.
I haven't read all the way through it yet, but I have provided a link to it below directly from the ATF's website.