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Pondering the plunge into NFA

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by 1911 guy, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    So here's the whole story:
    I have passed 25 years with my employer and the service award is anything of my choosing up to a value of $500, including gift cards. The plant manager says a Palmetto State gift card is good to go.

    Palmetto sells a 9mm AR pistol with 8" barrel and KAK Shockwave brace for $550. For fifty bucks and transfer fee, I can get one.
    https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-8-9mm-1-10-7-m-lok-moe-ept-shockwave-pistol-black.html

    Now where firm facts end and my ruminations begin. Throw the flag if you spot a fault in my plans.

    Acquire said pistol.
    Install carbine buffer and reinstall Shockwave brace on carbine buffer.
    Shoot it in this configuration.
    File Form 1.
    Wait.
    Install M4 stock on buffer when the stamp arrives.

    With the $500 "free money" (which cost me 25 years) I can get into an SBR for something less than $300. School me on any flaws or other considerations that I'm missing, please.
     
  2. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    I’d just start with a kit with a carbine buffer tube that uses brace that’s designed for the carbine buffer tube. Probably save money overall. PSA has lots of options for kits.

    The shockwave I don’t think fits on a carbine buffer - I have one on a Ruger Charger. I’ll check later.
     
  3. adcoch1

    adcoch1 Member

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    Just put the carbine tube on the pistol and don't have a stock around. It is completely legal that way, and having filed on a form 1 eliminates the constructive possession thing.
     
  4. vtsteve

    vtsteve Member

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    The Shockwave blade is a really great solution in my opinion, especially combined with the specific KAK buffer tube. By all means go ahead and file a form 1 if you really want an SBR, but you may find that the blade meets your needs well enough.

    There are also some advantages to having something configured as a pistol over an SBR, such as not needing to get a permission slip from ATF to cross state lines with your >16” barrel, etc.
     
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  5. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    And being able to keep it loaded in a vehicle in the many states where long guns cannot be per DOW regs.

    If you're wanting to dabble in NFA, suppressors are far and away the most rewarding. That $500 will pretty much cover the purchase and tax stamp on a good rimfire can, which is about the most fun you can have with your pants on.

    If you really do wanna do an SBR, though, I'd suggest a standard lower rather than a dedicated 9mm. Much more flexible, useful.
     
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  6. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Money down the drain. The resale market for SBR's is practically nonexistent. (That's because of the "stacking" of the $200 making/transfer tax.)

    If you can justify it as entertainment, fine. In no sense is it an "investment."

    My theory is that suppressors and SBR's are popular precisely because they are so tightly regulated. It gives the owners bragging rights. Back when machine guns were affordable (I bought my Thompson for $750, in 1975), owning an MG is what gave you bragging rights. Back then, as I recall, there was little interest in suppressors or SBR's, since for the same transfer tax and bureaucratic hoops you could have an MG.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  7. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Nonsense. They'd be far more prevalent unregulated. I'm sure there are a handful of elitists, but that mentality really only exists in the MG world where normal, working class folks can't afford to play.

    As for the lower interest 40 years ago, suppressors weren't nearly as lightweight, compact and effective, there were relatively few rifles that made sense as SBRs, and $200 was equivalent to nearly $1,000 today. There wouldn't be many people playing the NFA game in 2018 either if a $600 can cost you $1,550 after transfer/manufacture tax.
     
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  8. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    I approve this message. My favorite of all my NFA items is my Spectre II 22 rimfire silencer. My second is my 300 Blackout SBR.
     
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  9. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Nonsense.
    Ever sold an SBR? It's easy....detach upper from lower, sell separately. No ATF approval or tax stamp required.
    Same with an SBS.

    If not in SBR/SBS configuration...……..it ain't an SBR/SBS.
     
  10. vtsteve

    vtsteve Member

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    Sure, you can sell your SBR’d receiver if you detach the short barrel first, but who wants to buy a firearm with someone else’s information engraved on it? At that point all you’ve done is spent $200 to decrease the value of it to someone else.
     
    AlexanderA likes this.
  11. Sebastian the Ibis
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    Sebastian the Ibis Member

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    What MachIV said:

    .22 cans are awesome, more fun than SBRs.

    Don't go with a 9mm SBR as your first. They can be finicky and you will wind up spending another $500 on heavy buffers, adjustable gas blocks and other doohickeys getting it running the way you want.

    If you do wind up getting a 9mm SBR get the shortest barrel you can find.
     
  12. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Another +1 on this, shopping sales, you can certainly get a good .22 can + tax stamp for $500, you may even be able to slide in under $500 including the transfer fee. A good .22 can is definitely the most (least?) bang for your buck if you are wanting to dabble in NFA with $500.
     
  13. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Only if it was an SBR that was made on a Form 1. Which is why I only buy factory SBR/SBS......no engraving needed.;)
    And if you engrave the makers name in an inconspicuous location such as inside the lip of the magwell, its often not even noticeable.
    And removing/reengraving/etc a previous engraving isn't as difficult as fixing that tattoo with your ex-wife's name.:rofl:
     
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  14. vtsteve

    vtsteve Member

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    Not having to engrave a factory SBR on a Form 4 is great. Waiting for the stamp to come back before you can take possession of it, not so much. Regardless of whether it’s on a Form 1 or 4, engraved or not, if you sell your SBR you’ve flushed $200 down the toilet. If it’s on a Form 1 you’re also out the additional cost for the engraving.
     
  15. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    So...…...the $200 tax you spent on that SBR had no value?o_O
    Did you not have any pride of ownership or enjoyment in shooting that SBR?
     
  16. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    Clearly not, otherwise why sell it?
     
  17. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    I'm baffled by anyone who considers resale value of firearms in general, let alone NFA. Guns don't have a finite lifetime like appliances or motor vehicles, don't turn into money pits in constant need of repair, don't become obsolete or lose performance as they increase in "mileage". With a little care and barring abuse or extreme use, they last multiple generations and will perform just as well 100 years down the road as they day they were purchased. I have a significant number of firearms made before Teddy Roosevelt was president that still function perfectly.

    Buy what you want because you want it, worry about it's value if the day ever comes that you're bored with it.
     
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  18. vtsteve

    vtsteve Member

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    The $200 tax stamp has value to me. The stamp has zero value whatsoever to anyone I would sell my SBR to, hence why I said “if you sell it” you’ve wasted the money. How hard is this to understand? If you want an SBR, and plan to keep it, then pay the tax. If you’re planning to sell it later, you’re not getting your $200 back.

    An SBR has diminished resale value. It’s worth $200 less to literally everyone else but you.
     
  19. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    First, the stamp is a tax. The only people who value the tax stamp itself are stamp collectors who want revenue stamps.

    Thousands of people buy $2000 Title I AR's every year...…...do you know what the sales tax is on a $2000 AR is in my state? It's $165.....yet there is no whining and moaning over not getting back the value of that tax is there?

    Sorry, the fact is any firearm you buy has diminished value almost immediately. If you spent $1600 on a NIB Colt AR in 2008, have you "wasted your money" now that they are easily found for under $900 brand new?

    No, you didn't.

    And you are flat out wrong about "not getting your $200 back" on the resale of an SBR...….numerous sellers on GunBroker made a pretty good profit by selling their SBR'd AR lowers separately from the short barreled upper.

    That you don't think you can doesn't make it fact.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  20. MistWolf

    MistWolf Member

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    With a minor correction or two, yes.

    I assume when you say "Install carbine buffer" you actually mean "carbine buffer tube" (actually, it would be a "carbine receiver extension" or RE).

    If so, know that the Shockwave brace does not fit a carbine RE. They fit either a pistol RE or a proprietary RE. To fit an M4 stock, you would need to replace the RE with a carbine RE. Personally, I would build use a carbine RE and SBA3 arm brace instead of the Shockwave. When your stamp comes in, buy another lower and transfer the SBA3 to that. You'll have an SBR and a pistol lower for your convenience.

    From what I understand, if you build a 9mm AR, it's easiest to do with a lower that uses the Colt magazines. 9mm ARs built to take Glock magazines can be problematic. The easiest way to get a solid, reliable 9mm AR is to buy a complete Colt. The downside to that is it will be in quarantine until your application is approved. Going the pistol route allows you to shoot during the months you're waiting for your stamp.

    Don't worry about the $200 tax. It won't take too many range trips before your ammo bill far exceeds that.

    Sebastian, 9mm ARs are blowback. They have no gasblock, adjustable or otherwise.
     
  21. OARNGESI

    OARNGESI Member

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    Just do it, but give the brace or blade a shot you may be satisfied like that without spending extra. I wanted a sbr and ended up with 3 ar pistols then I wanted a sbs and ended up with a tac14 shotgun. Personally since the braces and shockwave shotguns started rolling out for me nfa is more about suppressors and machine guns.
     
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