Brand new Charter Arms Undercover - Not Pleased at all

I don't think anybody here is complaining about their customer service however they are complaining about the almost guaranteed need for it right out of the box.
That'd be a fun Howard Stern prank.

CA rep: Charter Arms, how can I help you?
Howard Stern: Hi, I have a revolver that needs servicing.
Rep: What seems to be the issue?
Stern: Um, I'm not sure exactly, I just picked it up and haven't taken it out of the box, just figure going by others experience something is already wrong with it.
 
Went shooting Tuesday with my gf, took her Pink Lady of course. First five rounds with Remington green box 130gr fmj and the gun locked up after 4 rounds. Could not pull the trigger or cock the hammer. Opened the cylinder and dumped the rounds. No primers backed out, no bullet jumping the crimp, nothing that I could see or feel. Fired 75 rounds of target loads 130 and 158 gr fmj after that and no other glitch at all.

This gun has about 200 rounds through it now and I'm having to tighten the frame screws after each 20 or 30 rounds.

What can I say, its a Charter Arms.
 
Went shooting Tuesday with my gf, took her Pink Lady of course. First five rounds with Remington green box 130gr fmj and the gun locked up after 4 rounds. Could not pull the trigger or cock the hammer. Opened the cylinder and dumped the rounds. No primers backed out, no bullet jumping the crimp, nothing that I could see or feel. Fired 75 rounds of target loads 130 and 158 gr fmj after that and no other glitch at all.

This gun has about 200 rounds through it now and I'm having to tighten the frame screws after each 20 or 30 rounds.

What can I say, its a Charter Arms.
Charter doesn't put any threadlock on their screws, so grab some blue loctite and the screws will be secure and not back out.
 
As a rule, CHARTER ARMS revolvers have gritty triggers, but they usually work.
I have 3 right now and ocassionally shoot them. They are ok as range guns, but everyone but the last needed a trigger job. The last was one was bought well used, so it's trigger was smoother than a new gun.
My brother bought a CHARTER ARMS for himself, his wife and daughters. They all could shoot them, but when I tried, I was appalled. I had brought my well used S&W model 15 with it worn smooth action and it was night and day. I doubt I will buy another CHARTER ARMS unless I can find a gunsmith who does a good trigger job like I had on my first CHARTER ARMS Undercover.

By the way, this seems to apply to most revolvers made today. They all seem to need some tuning. The exception may be the COLT revolvers. Th e PYTHON and COBRA I tried were fine out of the box.
With RUGER, you can get a nice trigger right out of the box if you get a Champion Match model. All of the ones I have tried were smooth and done right. I cannot say that for most of their revolvers I have tried.
With their higher prices, S&W should be better, but not always.

That is just my experience.

Jim
 
The steel frame LCR's are a fine revolver and all, but not $600 fine imo. This is why those who have asked for a .32 Mag LCR built on the lighter. 38 LCR frame is not something I would be against because I have seen those .38 LCRs go for under 350 in years past. Make it .32 Mag and keep it under 400 and I'm game, much more so than the Charter Undercoverette.

MSRP on the LCR .327 Mag is $859. Have owned many Rugers over the years, but the LCR is completely overpriced for what it is. As for Charter Arms...

I have the current 2022 production Undercoverette .32 H&R Mag 6-shot with the aluminium frame. Revolver is a champ, currently just under 500 rounds through it (and twice as may dry fires). My Hornady 85 XTP handload makes 1000 fps, and shoots a 3" group @ 15 yards. Can't ask for more than that. Transfer bar works fine.

My 2013 production Bulldog Classic just passed 1700 rounds (and twice as may dry fires without "snap caps"). Original transfer bar is still original and working fine. Usual practice load is a 200 FPL @ 775 fps, serious load is a 190 SWCHP @ 900 fps. Just shot this again last week and the accuracy is excellent. At 7 yards, it's a one-hole group; sights are blocky for distance, but still does 5 shots under 4" @ 25 yards. The new Hogue grips available make this a very controllable shooter.

My 2019 production 41 Mag Pug in .41 MAGNUM works just fine. It's a 5-shot on the XL frame. If there was a revolver that might break some parts, it would be a 21 ounce snub .41 Magnum. 200 rounds into it, shoots very well. Remington factory 180 grain XPB does 1220 fps (recoil in excess of 18 ft lbs) and 5 shot group at 15 yards is under 2". Put Pachmayr grips on this one. Transfer bar - 100% reliable!

Recently bought a 2022 production Police Undercover 6-shot .38 Special with the aluminium frame. Really enjoying this one. Only 300 rounds - plus 900 dry fires - through it after a couple months. Remington 125 grain BJHP +P shoot into 2" at 15 yards, but too low for my taste. After a bit of front sight filing, both my practice load of a 155 SWC @ 780 fps, and the serious load of a 145 SWCHP @ 870 fps, hit point of aim at 15 yards and the group shoots into 3". Oh yeah, transfer bar is still in one piece.

I have own/have owned well over a dozen Charters over the years. Some had to go back to the mothership for repair. Bought a Bulldog On Duty some years ago and the hammer would not release in SA mode. Unloading and making that one safe was a cautious experience! Returned to Charter - came back and shot great for 500 rounds. Sold it only because I wanted to buy something else. I bought one of the original Professional 7-shot .32 H&R Magnum models, and it shot horribly low. Sent it back, they made it right. I liked that one so much, I bought a stainless version! I did have a .22 Magnum Pathfinder that suffered from hard extraction. Sent it back to Charter and was returned much better, but Winchester ammo was still difficult. BTW...have never broken a transfer bar in any revolver.

Charter will also send you parts such as mainsprings, and sell you almost every part in the revolver. Try calling S&W and Ruger and ask to BUY parts. They won't sell you anything.

Have had numbers of S&Ws that had to go back over the years. Had the same exact hard extraction problem with a S&W 651 .22 Magnum J Frame. And that one cost me 4 times as much as the Charter Pathfinder! Others, canted barrels, rough actions. These are guns that are 2-3x the price of a Charter. This year, I purchased a brand new S&W Model 10-14 Classic. Revolver was nearly inoperable out of the box. MSRP is $869. S&W completely replaced it a couple months after I sent it to them for repair. The replacement is beautiful! Over 35 years ago I had a S&W Model 13-3 that broke three (3!) hammer noses in a row. Never broke a Charter FP or transfer bar. Maybe I should have sworn off S&W guns? Hardly.

No manufacturer is immune. The current corporation that calls itself Ruger is a shell of its former reputation. In 1985 I returned my 4-year old Security-Six to the factory after shooting over 8000 mostly double action rounds through it, about 1/3 magnums, and resulting in a slightly out of time and end-shaked lead spitter. They gleefully repaired it within three weeks and returned it without charge, noting the work done.

Today, the amount of flimsy junk that leaves the Ruger factories is mind-boggling, especially considering the grossly inflated prices they charge for what was originally - compared to Smith & Wesson - a reasonably priced and durable, but aesthetically challenged tool. In the past 5 years, I've had to return a couple Rugers with less than 200 rounds though them. Ruger CS will argue with you about returning the gun, and when it comes back, the chances of it being fixed are not good. And down the road they went!

Taurus. Had three over the years. All three either stopped working in short order, with repair being a dismal experience, or were so inaccurate that they were unenjoyable. After retiring I worked at my LGS once a week, for the past 3 years. Every new Taurus that was sold had to go back. LGS stopped stocking them, and only does transfer orders of them now. Some have had good experiences - they probably don't shoot them. More power to them!

Colt. I wish them well, and the new Pythons are nice to look at - despite them being unable to offer a polished blue revolver - but the misfires and poor trigger return is beyond disappointing in a $1700 revolver. The one 3" King Cobra I have seen looked very nice. But what good is it, when it is made of unobtanium.

It's not 1985 anymore. Ruger & S&W have both raced to the bottom. So I can cut Charter Arms some slack. When you call they are very accomodating. They make revolvers with features which others don't do, and the price for them is quite reasonable. They are not works of art. Nor are they competition guns designed for 5000 rounds a year. They are tools. I have many such tools, but my own Charters work great, and I depend on them without reservation.

OP, when yours comes back, shoot it and decide.
 
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MSRP on the LCR .327 Mag is $859. Have owned many Rugers over the years, but the LCR is completely overpriced for what it is. As for Charter Arms...

I have the current 2022 production Undercoverette .32 H&R Mag 6-shot with the aluminium frame. Revolver is a champ, currently just under 500 rounds through it (and twice as may dry fires). My Hornady 85 XTP handload makes 1000 fps, and shoots a 3" group @ 15 yards. Can't ask for more than that. Transfer bar works fine.

My 2013 production Bulldog Classic just passed 1700 rounds (and twice as may dry fires without "snap caps"). Original transfer bar is still original and working fine. Usual practice load is a 200 FPL @ 775 fps, serious load is a 190 SWCHP @ 900 fps. Just shot this again last week and the accuracy is excellent. At 7 yards, it's a one-hole group; sights are blocky for distance, but still does 5 shots under 4" @ 25 yards. The new Hogue grips available make this a very controllable shooter.

My 2019 production 41 Mag Pug in .41 MAGNUM works just fine. It's a 5-shot on the XL frame. If there was a revolver that might break some parts, it would be a 21 ounce snub .41 Magnum. 200 rounds into it, shoots very well. Remington factory 180 grain XPB does 1220 fps (recoil in excess of 18 ft lbs) and 5 shot group at 15 yards is under 2". Put Pachmayr grips on this one. Transfer bar - 100% reliable!

Recently bought a 2022 production Police Undercover 6-shot .38 Special with the aluminium frame. Really enjoying this one. Only 300 rounds - plus 900 dry fires - through it after a couple months. Remington 125 grain BJHP +P shoot into 2" at 15 yards, but too low for my taste. After a bit of front sight filing, both my practice load of a 155 SWC @ 780 fps, and the serious load of a 145 SWCHP @ 870 fps, hit point of aim at 15 yards and the group shoots into 3". Oh yeah, transfer bar is still in one piece.

I have own/have owned well over a dozen Charters over the years. Some had to go back to the mothership for repair. Bought a Bulldog On Duty some years ago and the hammer would not release in SA mode. Unloading and making that one safe was a cautious experience! Returned to Charter - came back and shot great for 500 rounds. Sold it only because I wanted to buy something else. I bought one of the original Professional 7-shot .32 H&R Magnum models, and it shot horribly low. Sent it back, they made it right. I liked that one so much, I bought a stainless version! I did have a .22 Magnum Pathfinder that suffered from hard extraction. Sent it back to Charter and was returned much better, but Winchester ammo was still difficult. BTW...have never broken a transfer bar in any revolver.

Charter will also send you parts such as mainsprings, and sell you almost every part in the revolver. Try calling S&W and Ruger and ask to BUY parts. They won't sell you anything.

Have had numbers of S&Ws that had to go back over the years. Had the same exact hard extraction problem with a S&W 651 .22 Magnum J Frame. And that one cost me 4 times as much as the Charter Pathfinder! Others, canted barrels, rough actions. These are guns that are 2-3x the price of a Charter. This year, I purchased a brand new S&W Model 10-14 Classic. Revolver was nearly inoperable out of the box. MSRP is $869. S&W completely replaced it a couple months after I sent it to them for repair. The replacement is beautiful! Over 35 years ago I had a S&W Model 13-3 that broke three (3!) hammer noses in a row. Never broke a Charter FP or transfer bar. Maybe I should have sworn off S&W guns? Hardly.

No manufacturer is immune. The current corporation that calls itself Ruger is a shell of its former reputation. In 1985 I returned my 4-year old Security-Six to the factory after shooting over 8000 mostly double action rounds through it, about 1/3 magnums, and resulting in a slightly out of time and end-shaked lead spitter. They gleefully repaired it within three weeks and returned it without charge, noting the work done.

Today, the amount of flimsy junk that leaves the Ruger factories is mind-boggling, especially considering the grossly inflated prices they charge for what was originally - compared to Smith & Wesson - a reasonably priced and durable, but aesthetically challenged tool. In the past 5 years, I've had to return a couple Rugers with less than 200 rounds though them. Ruger CS will argue with you about returning the gun, and when it comes back, the chances of it being fixed are not good. And down the road they went!

Taurus. Had three over the years. All three either stopped working in short order, with repair being a dismal experience, or were so inaccurate that they were unenjoyable. After retiring I worked at my LGS once a week, for the past 3 years. Every new Taurus that was sold had to go back. LGS stopped stocking them, and only does transfer orders of them now. Some have had good experiences - they probably don't shoot them. More power to them!

Colt. I wish them well, and the new Pythons are nice to look at - despite them being unable to offer a polished blue revolver - but the misfires and poor trigger return is beyond disappointing in a $1700 revolver. The one 3" King Cobra I have seen looked very nice. But what good is it, when it is made of unobtanium.

It's not 1985 anymore. Ruger & S&W have both raced to the bottom. So I can cut Charter Arms some slack. When you call they are very accomodating. They make revolvers with features which others don't do, and the price for them is quite reasonable. They are not works of art. Nor are they competition guns designed for 5000 rounds a year. They are tools. I have many such tools, but my own Charters work great, and I depend on them without reservation.

OP, when yours comes back, shoot it and decide.
I appreciate your experiences and opinions and time you took to write this. I will say that your experiences with Charter do not reflect those that others have had, especially recently. My experience with the Professional has been, other than a busted transfer bar, that it works. I'm disappointed it has a funky sight system that when the top of the front sight is aligned flush with the top of the rear sight is causes it to shoot low and that the proper hold is to align the center of the fiber optic rod to the top of the rear sight.

That's not how sights should work, but like with other fixed sight revolvers, I figure out ways to make them work for me. For the $300 I paid for it, it's a unique revolver that nobody else makes at that price.

My issue with Charter is I'm not deaf to others issues with them and I hear a lot of issues with them and because I've had issues with mine, I believe them and that their experiences reflect more the norm with Charter revolvers than the exception, which would be you.

I'm not going to disagree with you on Ruger and S&W, I find their revolvers to be overpriced and when issues are found don't make them worth the cost. Inversely I should think that if Charters have issues that due to the low cost that should shield them from my ire, but it doesn't because IMO the reason for the issues is the low price.

I have certainly been a Taurus defender recently, but for good reason and that's my Taurus guns bought new have worked well and been exceptional in price. Had I listened to others who repeatedly post the same 15 or 20 year old video of a 24/7 pistol firing by being shook around, I wouldn't have found my way into such value rich firearms. Not only has the quality of my Taurii been good, but the price was good and the results have been the Taurus punches at a level above its price point.

I would like to further confirm that by purchases two more of their revolvers, but Taurus doesn't seem to be able to produce them in enough volume for them to become available.I hope this changes in 2023 because I'm tired of waiting. That said, given all the responses I get from fellow Taurus owners, the brand has turned a corner in recent years and what was the norm with their guns 20 years ago no longer applies.

When did you buy your Taurus handguns?
 
I have three Taurus revolvers and haven't had any issue with them. the 3" 85 was bought around 2001, the 942 bought in 2021 and the 856 bought in 2022. And I do shoot all three quite a bit.

I have looked at the Charter Arms revolvers but was not impressed with them. There are the problems that have been noted in the last couple of years plus handling them next to Taurus and Rock Island Armory revolvers. I'll take the rough finished and gritty trigger on the RIA over a Charter Arms any day.
 
They will fix it. I had the same problem with one. Sadly, despite how great their customer service is and how kind they are, I just don’t trust their products.
Amen. I really don't care about customer service -- I expect a product to be made right in the first place. And when I know someone else had a problem with a product -- especially something as critical as a self-defense weapon -- I don't buy products from that maker.
 
Just ran another 150 rounds through my Off Duty today. Im at a little over 400 rounds now and thousands of dry fires with zero issues. The trigger has smoothed up and is better than my buddy's S&W 637 with fit/finish right up with it. Either I got very fortunate or Charter has stepped their game up, ive seen them recommended a lot recently so I'm inclined to believe they have. Unfortunately once a gun company develops a reputation it can be hard to shake it. I don't know how many times I've heard Taurus referred to as "cheap Brazilian crap."
 
Im the guy who usually gets on a thread and defends Charter …. But now as of late there QC is horrible
My Charters work .. Im glad
But Im not planning on a new one

I really like my Taurus 856UL
I chose a Taurus 856UL instead of a Charter for the same price. I"m glad I did. Based on what I am reading on this forum and in the Gun Magazines it seems like Taurus is on the rise and Charter is on the decline
 
Gun companies have their ups and downs. I've had Rugers and Smiths that went back for repair, sometimes multiple times. By far the worst offender has been Smith & Wesson. OTH I've had versions of each that were perfect out of the box. You're almost afraid to shoot the perfect specimen in fear of what you might find.

I've got a couple of steel frame CA Undercovers. Both date from Pre-Covid 2019. Other than tightening the screws, they've both been perfect. The DA pull on one is a little heavy, but other than that, they compare favourably to my late 60s Smith M37. I've had no problems with either gun; but neither have I dry-fired them extensively. I haven't needed to; with the one noted exception both had triggers that were as smooth and light as the M37.

BTW I bought that M37 used when I went to buy a new Smith 642. You couldn't get the cylinder to swing out to load the new 642. Shop owner said, "Guess it'll have to go back to Smith". Bought the M37 instead.

Times of high firearm demand and/or labor market shortages are a poor time to by firearms. The companies are struggling to get product out the door (as noted above) so as not to lose market share. Low paid but trained and experienced employees move on to better paying jobs and are replaced by inexperienced, haphazardly trained, low-paid employees. It's not a formula that guarantees good product, but it is the reality we face.
 
Oh, and let me add that my SP101 is the biggest stinker I own. Yes it does go bang. It also shoots very low. Filed the front sight away trying to get it to POA. It was unuseable as anything but a belly gun until I put a Crimson Trace laser on it.

Spending more does not always guarantee either quality or proper operation.
 
And it's not just gun companies. in audio High Fidelity companies too.I can remember back in the '60s and early seventies when Marantz was a high-end brand then in the late seventies and through the 80s they were junk being sold at big box discount stores. now they're a high-end brand again
 
Well, looks like this thread is still postable, so let me go on with the story. i never did send the gun back to CA. i've been involved with health issues and my wife's health issues and just never got it done. i have not fired the gun since the first time months ago.

so, today. i went to my local range and took this revolver with me. before i left, i cleaned the gun and oiled it - i slathered it up! and i put 25 rounds through it and it never failed one time! so this whole crises was due to not being lubed! live and learn, Blunderturd.

but the other thing i learned today is that i can't hit squat with this gun. rough trigger pull. i don't really know what kind of accuracy one should expect from a snub nose revolver, but i was getting none. so i will trade this one along.
 
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Well, looks like this thread is still postable, so let me go on with the story. i never did send the gun back to CA. i've been involved with health issues and my wife's health issues and just never got it done. i have not fired the gun since the first time months ago.

so, today. i went to my local range and took this revolver with me. before i left, i cleaned the gun and oiled it - i slathered it up! and i put 25 rounds through it and it never failed one time! so this whole crises was due to not being lubed! live and learn, Blunderturd.

but the other thing i learned today is that i can't hit squat with this gun. rough trigger pull. i don't really know what kind of accuracy one should expect from a snub nose revolver, but i was getting none. so i will trade this one along.

My wife has a Charter Arms undercover in 357 Magnum. We got the laser grips from CA a year ago. It is very accurate. Maybe you need the laser grips so you know what you are shooting at? Hers has a very nice trigger too.
 
I was under the impression that their new 327 was a 6 shot "J frame" size gun.
It is a j frame size gun. I've had one for several years. It's not a new gun. I believe it was discontinued for a while.
 
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but the other thing i learned today is that i can't hit squat with this gun. rough trigger pull. i don't really know what kind of accuracy one should expect from a snub nose revolver, but i was getting none. so i will trade this one along.

Small, snub-nose revolvers are among the hardest guns to shoot in my experience. ANY mistake you make is magnified by the short sight radius (not necessarily the short barrel) and the usually long and heavy trigger pull. It doesn't take much to pull those sights off just a little, and a little makes a big difference with those gun. I gave up on them a number of years ago. I know others can shoot the lights out with them, but I sure can't, and I've probably owned a couple of dozen over the years. Charter, Smith and Wesson, Colt, Ruger, Taurus...didn't matter, Ok...I'll admit that I don't shoot ANYTHING really well, but I shoot small guns even worse.
 
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i bought a brand new in the box Charter Arms Undercover this week, took it out to shoot today. first trigger pull, snap. light strike. i thought "surely i am mistaken" but i wasn't. i experienced at least one FtF in each 5-round cylinder. 20-30% failure, all light strikes. i do not know how to make any adjustments to it and have no idea if there's anything i can do to fix it. i assume if i go trying to work on it the warranty would be void.

so, i suppose the deal is that the dealer doesn't take it back, i have to ship it to Charter Arms? i just didn't expect this. i thought everybody making guns ought to know how to make a doggone snub nosed .38. i learned. buy cheap, get cheap.

i am working at night and my wife is here alone. she is not able to get around very fast and i wanted her to have a small gun she can easily handle, and a revolver so she doesn't have to think about it much if she needs to use it. the plan was working fine til i actually fired the gun.
We have had over a hundred new Taurus revolvers in inventory in the last year at the LGS I work at. They all have had nice DA triggers that have been easy to pull. None of the revolvers have been brought back to the shop, or reported any problems. most of the 38spl models are in the $350 range, new. If it is intended to be a home defense revolver, get an all steel version with a four inch barrel.
 
We have had over a hundred new Taurus revolvers in inventory in the last year at the LGS I work at. They all have had nice DA triggers that have been easy to pull. None of the revolvers have been brought back to the shop, or reported any problems. most of the 38spl models are in the $350 range, new. If it is intended to be a home defense revolver, get an all steel version with a four inch barrel.
That's good to hear, unfortunately most of what Taurus has had available for their revolvers the past 2 years has been .38 or .357 only and Judge's or Raging whatevers. They had no .22 revolvers during that time, the .357/9mm combo 692 was not available, nor was the .327; Taurus basically put all the interesting stuff that had no competitive offerings and put them on the shelf. I can understand the .327, but .22's and a 9mm/.357 convertible wouldn't have sold? Instead they focused on .38 or .357 revolvers at a time that ammo wasn't available and if it was it was $2 a round?

Whoever the execs were at Taurus that made that decision don't deserve the bonus they surely got because it was a stupid decision and stupidity shouldn't be rewarded.

That said, I will be buying a few Taurus revolvers in the near future.
 
I could not agree more. The availability of 22LR or 22WMR revolvers has been virtually nonexistent for several years. I personally want the 22mag ultralite. A 9mm/357 convertible would also be nice. I haven't seen a distributor with any .327s in stock in years.
I wonder if their survey of the customer marketplace matches what the rest of us think.
I have come to the conclusion that the executive level staff at most companies today have absolutely no sense of products or customers.
They all are MBA wonders or Ivy league school graduates that simply operate companies on stock performance.
So many firms are on autopilot, while the executives enjoy their private jets, $100 lunches, multi-million dollar salaries, and stock options, moving from one company to the next. If the business falters, who cares, that is what layoffs are for.
 
I could not agree more. The availability of 22LR or 22WMR revolvers has been virtually nonexistent for several years. I personally want the 22mag ultralite. A 9mm/357 convertible would also be nice. I haven't seen a distributor with any .327s in stock in years.
I wonder if their survey of the customer marketplace matches what the rest of us think.
I have come to the conclusion that the executive level staff at most companies today have absolutely no sense of products or customers.
They all are MBA wonders or Ivy league school graduates that simply operate companies on stock performance.
So many firms are on autopilot, while the executives enjoy their private jets, $100 lunches, multi-million dollar salaries, and stock options, moving from one company to the next. If the business falters, who cares, that is what layoffs are for.
I don't know what the reason was, one may have been when the pandemic happened they looked at what had been selling the best the past 5 years and said, "Focus on those." Of course the 942's didn't get revealed until 2020, so they never had a chance to move numbers, same goes for the .327 and 692.

I can understand scaling back on the .327 because obviously the ammo manufacturers are not going to focus on making ammo for a caliber that is not common, thus not in demand, same for the .380 revolver, but .22 and 9mm/.357 revolvers? Myopic, and it likely is a decision being made by bean counters with degrees, but instead of asking questions and making better informed decisions they make kneejerk reactions.

All it's done is lose them sales, I bought a Ruger .22 instead because I got tired of waiting.
 
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