brass frame 1851

[TheBigAR2003]

brass 1851

well i think the bolt may be wider than the grooves on the cylinder because it is starting to chip off the sides of the grooves and i havent even shot it yet just from normal function check. what should i do?

that silver color is the chipping on the cylinder

 

[SWC Bonfire]

This was posted a while back:

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_One.pdf

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_Two.pdf


I know the round bbl 44 navy at Cabelas is a pietta, I assume yours is as well. It goes over fitting the bolt as well as a few other mods.

Judging on how hard it was to get the wedge out, I bet it's a pietta. I actually had to take mine back to get them to knock it out it was in there so tight (and if they broke it, the onus was off my back).

 

[MISSEDSHOT]

I must comment on the links above, I used the links to "tune" two 1851 Pietta clones and it worked wonderfully! Following these instructions will almost make "race" guns out of something that isn't. I wound up polishing every contact surface on all the moving parts I could get to, ramped the bolt, de-burred the notches on the cylinder, polished the hand and the window it comes through in the frame. I also polished the wedge and the slot in the arbor. Following these instructions along with some advice from SCRAT and others here helped me to make two very dependable weapons out of something that was unusable at best.

 

[CaptainCrossman]

to the OP- yes, the brass framed guns will shoot loose, and rather quickly. I threw away (2) brass frames on 1851 Colts, that pulled the cylinder pin out of the frame- and had to replace them with CVA steel frames. It cost me $67 per gun and about 2 hours per gun rework back in 1995.

A steel frame gun is a much better investment for shooting. With the steel frame, I can top off the cylinders and shoot it with no breakages- it will handle any load. Shooting reduced loads may extend the life of a brass frame, but less than 20 grains of powder is a squib load- even with reduced loads, a brass frame will start to loosen up, the barrel will start wobbling on the frame after a short time.

If you notice in the tuning links posted above, the 2 guns they are working on are steel framed- not brass framed. Also, the procedure to "harden the hand" with a torch and water quench, is VERY QUESTIONABLE. The only way to actually know if that is helping or hurting, is by doing a Brinell or Rockwell hardness test. Allow me to elaborate- when cartridge riflle brass gets work hardened from several reloadings, we ANNEAL the shoulder area of the cartridges, in the exact same manner- torch and water quench- this is to SOFTEN them, so they don't crack- not to harden them.

I'd never torch heat a Colt hand part to cherry red, then quench it. You may very well make it softer, and it will wear out in no time, or bend.

 

[kBob]

Capt.Cross,

First welcome to THR.

You were doing great until you compared annealing brass and hardening steel. Yes, heating and quinching cartridge beass or copper does make them softer. But iron and steel ARE hardened by doing so. Iron ain't copper.

The hand is a cheap part, if heating and quinching dont work, buy another, if it wears out soon, buy another, is too hard and breaks buy another, file of too much, buy another. In the mean time have fun trying things.

Whats wrong with shooting squib loads? You plan on riding amongst a bunch of Billy Yanks with your revolvers blazing? Plan on riding up next to a stampeding buffalo and shooting it down to feed the camp?

There are a lot of folks on here that have shot brass framed guns for years and through a few cans of powder.

Not trying to be less than High Road, just trying to help.

-Bob Hollingsworth

 

[madcratebuilder]

Good post bob.

 

[SWC Bonfire]

In a nutshell, the melting temperature of brass is quite a bit lower than steel. At the temperature output of a small torch, you are going to get anything that is brass closer to its melting point than you would anything made of steel. At elevated temperatures (but still low relative to the melting point of steel) you get some funky microscopic structures that develop between iron and iron carbide molecules and dropping a steel part in water or oil "freezes" the metal like it is before it has a chance to slowly revert back to the way the molecules were aligned at lower temperatures.

The trick is finding the right temperature... the old timers used metal color. Too much and you do the same thing that you do to the brass, you anneal it and make the metal grains large and soft. Too little, and you do nothing. The amount of carbon in the steel also will play a big part. If it is cheap mild steel, it is unlikely that you will make it much softer than it already is. You could always try adding surface carbon (oil, wax, etc.) and heating it up to "carburize" it, but this is usually a process that requires a temperature controlled furnace and controlled temperatures for different durations.

If there was any way you could peen it (#8 shot in a bead blaster, maybe?) it would do some good as well.

 

[J.T. Gerrity]

yes, the brass framed guns will shoot loose, and rather quickly.

even with reduced loads, a brass frame will start to loosen up, the barrel will start wobbling on the frame after a short time

How would you explain my 25+ year old brass-framed .44 cal. Pietta that's still a tack driver after 1000+ rounds and many cans of powder?

This kind of commentary makes me wonder if you ever really owned a brass-framed gun, and, if you did, just how badly you abused it? Folks here are interested in helpful and accurate information; if you're not sure what you're talking about, please refrain from posting.

While the steel-framed guns are more sturdy, the brass guns will do just fine if you treat them with a little respect.

 

[mykeal]

While the steel-framed guns are more sturdy, the brass guns will do just fine if you treat them with a little respect.

+1.

Correct.