Pietta 1851 Brass Frame
- Thread starter dodo bird
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junkman_01
member
It would be more helpful if you mentioned the caliber of your gun. You are more likely to get a useful answer that way.
makos_goods
Member
Yeah, makes you sort of long for the days when someone said '51 you knew it meant .36 caliber.
~Mako
junkman_01
member
In a .44 brass frame I would keep the charge closer to 20 grs. than 25 grs. A filler is needed to keep the ball nearer the chamber mouth. I use lubed felt wads.
Shultzhaus
Member
Ditto on Junkman. When I got my '51 - .44 brass frame from Cabela, there was a post card size insert in the owner's manual that warned 25 Gr was max. 20 gr seems to give the best accuracy also. You should try different loads, however, every gun has it's own "sweet" load.
junkman_01
member
The grreased wad IS the filler.
Prairie Dawg
Member
If you don't want to use greased wads, put in yer powder, add in some cornmeal until about 1/4 " from top (I use a squeeze bottle like the refillable fast food ketchup bottles)
Then add yer ball & seat with loading lever.
Ball compresses cornmeal, cornmeal compresses powder.
The use a popsickle stick to put some lube over the ball up to the top of the cylinder.
Here is an easy lube: 60% toilet seal wax mixed with 40% crisco.
The 60/40 is soft enough on cold days to poke into the cylinder holes and doesn't run on hot days.
Take the wax off a toilet bowl seal. Put it in a mason jar. Weigh it. Add crisco to the mason jar.
Put it in a pan of boiling water or a microwave until it all melts together. Give it a stir & pour it into a good sealable tub, like a tupperware tub.
That's how I make mine & it works great.
If it's too hard, add a bit of crisco. If ya want it softer, and less crisco or more wax.
Now................Some folks are going to tell ya to do it different. That this way is not good.
I say to that -- been doing it that way since the mid 80s & it's always worked great.
Also the #1 Frontiersman at Winter Range -- National Champion Split Rail, has always done his cap guns that way.
What's good enough for a National Champion is good enough for me!
--Dawg
Then add yer ball & seat with loading lever.
Ball compresses cornmeal, cornmeal compresses powder.
The use a popsickle stick to put some lube over the ball up to the top of the cylinder.
Here is an easy lube: 60% toilet seal wax mixed with 40% crisco.
The 60/40 is soft enough on cold days to poke into the cylinder holes and doesn't run on hot days.
Take the wax off a toilet bowl seal. Put it in a mason jar. Weigh it. Add crisco to the mason jar.
Put it in a pan of boiling water or a microwave until it all melts together. Give it a stir & pour it into a good sealable tub, like a tupperware tub.
That's how I make mine & it works great.
If it's too hard, add a bit of crisco. If ya want it softer, and less crisco or more wax.
Now................Some folks are going to tell ya to do it different. That this way is not good.
I say to that -- been doing it that way since the mid 80s & it's always worked great.
Also the #1 Frontiersman at Winter Range -- National Champion Split Rail, has always done his cap guns that way.
What's good enough for a National Champion is good enough for me!
--Dawg
16gr of Black Powder, 25gr of cornmeal, seat the ball and push 'er home. I'm too lazy to make my own lube like Prairie Dawg so I just use straight Crisco. Warm temps aren't usually a problem in the part of Wyoming I live in.
She'll probably shoot a little high but you'll find that the phony Navy's will group VERY well with not much Black Powder pushing that ball.
About the only thing that you can really do wrong loading these things is use too much powder. Find what works for you and don't be afraid to experiment with just about any lube as long as it's not petroleum based. I've been told that mink oil is pretty effective too.
She'll probably shoot a little high but you'll find that the phony Navy's will group VERY well with not much Black Powder pushing that ball.
About the only thing that you can really do wrong loading these things is use too much powder. Find what works for you and don't be afraid to experiment with just about any lube as long as it's not petroleum based. I've been told that mink oil is pretty effective too.
Pulp
Member
I've always used the 30 grain spout on my flask. That may be too much, but that's what I've always used.
junkman_01
member
In a brass frame, you are beating up the gun.
BHP FAN
Member
20 gr. 2f Goex is my perfect brass frame .44 load...then a Wonder Wad, a .454 ball, and touched off by either a Remington #10, or a CCI #11 cap.
My load for my 44 brass frame colt is pretty much the the same as BHP FAN except i use grits for filler.
As for your question using a 38sp case for a measure that is fine. A 38sp holds 22.8 grains of black powder. You could file the case some if you wanted to lighten your load some. When i was frist starting and did not have a powder measure i taped the primer hole on a 38sp case and threaded a screw in the case to make a adjustable measure. 357case 26.8 grains, 45acp case 26.6 grains, 7.62x39 case 31.8 grains black powder and 30 carbine 19.8 grains. I weighed these charges using a cheap digital scale so they are not exact but close enough.
As for your question using a 38sp case for a measure that is fine. A 38sp holds 22.8 grains of black powder. You could file the case some if you wanted to lighten your load some. When i was frist starting and did not have a powder measure i taped the primer hole on a 38sp case and threaded a screw in the case to make a adjustable measure. 357case 26.8 grains, 45acp case 26.6 grains, 7.62x39 case 31.8 grains black powder and 30 carbine 19.8 grains. I weighed these charges using a cheap digital scale so they are not exact but close enough.
arcticap
Member
9mm holds 13.3 grs. and .40 S&W holds 19.3 grs.
BHP FAN
Member
I don't know how much it holds, but I've used a 9mm empty as a ''field expedient'' measure and it worked just fine.
BHP FAN
Member
Based on Arcticap's data, I'd lean towards the .40. A bit of copper wire twisted around the extracter groove for a handle, and you're ready to go!
I'm glad dodo bird brought this up, and the rest of you guys makeing life easer for the brass frame owners out here. I bought one of these last year, from one of the shops here in town. It's a pietta 1851 colt .44 cal, it came in the pack w/all the stuff to start you off. Triditions put these out. OK the little powder flask that came with it has a spout on it that holds 28grs of powder. A lot of people are over loading these brass frames right out of the pack. Plus people are posting reviwes on other sites, about the pistols they buy there. No big deal till you get to the 51 brass frames, and others that are brass. Thats when you find them talking about how much powder they put in these pistols, it's so much powder, I wonder how people are not hurt, or worse. Brass is not steel. If you,re going buy these pistols, why not get the pack of spouts, like those @ Cabela's, there's five per pack. I'm sure if you start with one pistol, you'll buy another. How maney people here bought one pistol, and didn't buy another later? These guns are a lot of fun, and most will last a long time, if taken care of. I know cause I have seven so far. My 58 army is 20 yrs old, it's as good a shooter as the day I got it. I've fired a thousand or so rds through it. I don't know everything, but I know how much powder not to use. If I want a big bang, I just load up my walker. It has limets to, but helps me not want to over load the others. Brass frames start at 15grs work up to 20grs will give you all you need for your .44 cal. On still frames most folks like to stay between 25 and 30grs. What you guys thank?
I think using a powder measure instead of buying a bunch of different spouts is a better idea. Filling the chambers directly from a flask isn't terribly risky, but it's a bad idea to get into that habit and then do it on a long rifle. Buy a powder measure and just get used to using it all the time.
brushhippie
Member
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I see Im a few months behind on this thread but Im a new Pietta 44 owner and Ive got 1, ok 2 questions....got the 16- 20 gr of powder 25 gr of cornmeal then ball and lube, no patch? I had read somewhere that I needed something under the ball. Also can I use wax over the ball (I will be carrying it quite a bit with some time between firings) or is that not good. I was thinking of something to keep it dry without the mess. Thanks
No patch.
Terminology: a patch is a thin piece of cotton used to seal the gap between an undersize ball and the bore in a single shot muzzleloader; it's large enough to wrap around the sides of the ball. A wad is a thick (approx 1/8") piece of felt (usually wool) that sits between the powder and ball in a black powder percussion revolver. It's round and sized to fit the chamber diameter. Wads are most often treated with lubrication to soften fouling. There is an issue with wet lubes contaminating powder over the long term, so a dry lube is best if the gun is to be loaded for a long period of time.
Wax or grease over the chamber mouth is a popular choice for keeping the powder dry. If the wad lube is chosen correctly, chamber mouth grease or wax is not necessary. If a good dry lube is not available, it makes good sense to seal the chamber mouth.
Dry lube: one formula for dry lube is to mix Ballistol with water in a ration of about 5 parts water to 1 part Ballistol. Soak the wads in the solution until they're fully permeated, then set them aside to dry - the amount of time depends on the local humidity. The dried Ballistol/water residue will not contaminate powder and provides a good medium for softening fouling.
Terminology: a patch is a thin piece of cotton used to seal the gap between an undersize ball and the bore in a single shot muzzleloader; it's large enough to wrap around the sides of the ball. A wad is a thick (approx 1/8") piece of felt (usually wool) that sits between the powder and ball in a black powder percussion revolver. It's round and sized to fit the chamber diameter. Wads are most often treated with lubrication to soften fouling. There is an issue with wet lubes contaminating powder over the long term, so a dry lube is best if the gun is to be loaded for a long period of time.
Wax or grease over the chamber mouth is a popular choice for keeping the powder dry. If the wad lube is chosen correctly, chamber mouth grease or wax is not necessary. If a good dry lube is not available, it makes good sense to seal the chamber mouth.
Dry lube: one formula for dry lube is to mix Ballistol with water in a ration of about 5 parts water to 1 part Ballistol. Soak the wads in the solution until they're fully permeated, then set them aside to dry - the amount of time depends on the local humidity. The dried Ballistol/water residue will not contaminate powder and provides a good medium for softening fouling.
arcticap
Member
brushhippie said:
I bought a revolver that had shot loads sealed with what was said to be melted soy wax. It was very hard stuff but an effective seal. I suspect that it was poured into the chamber while it was melted. Beeswax or a beeswax mix might have been easier to work with.
The edges of the capped nipples may also need to be sealed with beeswax or something similar even if only to keep the caps from falling off over time.
Another idea would be to use over powder cards made of a moisture proof material. I make home made over powder cards from the wax board material of juice and dairy cartons which is waterproof. And even if they weren't perfectly cut, they could still be easily rammed into each chamber to form fit them. Even using a dowel to form fit them should work.
Here's a thread with photos in posts #1 & #14 that show them:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=452294
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