Loading brass frame 1851

[RBird]

I have been shooting steel frame BP pistols for years. I have always used 25 grains of fffg. But I recently purchased a couple brass frame revolvers and have seen multiple load recommendations, even in the owners manuals.

I bought a pietta 1851 colt, and a pietta 1858 remington, both in brass frame. They both came with 2 manuals, a traditions manual, and a pietta manual. The pietta manual recommends 15 grains of fffg, the traditions manual recommends a minimum of 22 and max of 30.

I have searched the internet for a few days now and have seen a lot of different answers to the proper load for these pistols.

I was going to just play it safe with the brass frames and use 15 grains, but that traditions manual recommends a minimum of 22? Am I going to end up with a squib or some other failure with 15 grains?

 

[kBob]

RBird,

Use a filler on top of 15 grain charges in a .44 or a felt wad to take up room. You might find it more accurate than stouter loads.

-kBob

 

[desidog]

Second hand? Are you sure the Traditions manual came with one of these particular guns?
"minimum 22 grains" is an odd thing to write in a brasser manual.
I'd say 22 maximum, not minimum.

 

[Blackpowdershooter44]

No, you wont have a failure to fire with the 15 grain charge, 15-20 grains is a recommended load for brass frame guns because hot loads can stretch the frame and loosen the arbor.
I hope this helps you

 

[RBird]

Yes, brand new. From midwayusa even, who I have ordered ammo from for years. All their BP stuff was on clearance so I ended up ordering a 3 pistols and a bunch of round balls.

I was pretty sure the 15 grains was right, just wanted to make sure after all the different recommendations I had seen online.

The pistols were in new condition, covered in that sticky packing grease, wrapped in plastic, etc. But one thing that was different with these pistols was the box. I am used to getting a pietta in a glossy box, typically with an american flag on the front or red white and blue in color. These pistols came in a standard brown cardboard box with a "traditions" sticker on the side of the box. So maybe manuals got mixed up? I don't know.

Anyways. Thanks everyone for the responses!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I can tell you for a fact that too many 30 grain loads stretched the frame of my old Uberti brass framed 44 caliber 'Navy'.



Nobody was warning us back in 1968 to go easy on the loads in a brass framed revolver.

 

[exbrit49]

15g ?

Been using 23G of triple F in my brassers for years.. seems lke a very comfortable load with good accuracy. I use the 23 grains with corn meal filler with crisco.
Couple of thee brassers are now comimg up for 20 years old and no sign of frame stretch.
Tried a coupleof 15g loads and they felt like mouse farts.
I'm sticking with my 23 G loads

 

[mrdeltoid]

I second the 15gr load with inert material and a felt wad on top. Works well in my brass frame.

 

[Erwan]

I Don't know what is the best and what you will do with this handgun but in my Pietta .36 brass frame the best accuracy at 30 yards is obtained with only 15 gr (3fg) with fine semolina or corn meal as filler and Gatofeo's style grease...

In other way I think that a brass frame can accept certainly more without risk but what about accuracy in this case at a short distance like 30yds and more. I guess that the dispersion (right word or not ?) will be very large at 50yds...

 

[the Black Spot]

Or switch to 2F.
20 gr of 2f in a .36
30 gr of 2f in a .44

 

[4v50 Gary]

You're target shooting with a brass frame. 15 gr is fine. Keep it light and your piece will enjoy longevity.

 

[BCRider]

For the short time I've been shooting C&B pistols I've come to feel that brass framed guns are better in .36 or smaller size chamberings. The lower forces from the smaller balls and charges isn't going to hurt the guns as soon if it ever does.

Likely as not it would be handy to find a second powder flask for the filler. That would make things faster and a lot more convenient.

 

[RBird]

2f in a pistol? This is the first I have ever heard of that. I guess is kind of makes sense for brass frame though. A full size charge with a slower burn, sounds like it might be right. Instead of 3f and filler?... Hmm. Anyone else ever tried this?

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

FFg works fine in pistols. I stopped stocking both FFg and FFFg long ago and only use FFg for everything now. 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, 38-40, 45-70, and 12 Gauge.

It used to be that the dividing line between FFg and FFFg was 45 caliber. Common thought was that anything smaller should be loaded with FFFg, anything larger with FFg, and both could be loaded in 45 caliber. But it turns out that FFg is fine for everything.

Very generally speaking, you will see an increase of 60fps -100fps when substituting FFFg for FFg, all other things remaining the same.

 

[BCRider]

Isn't there also something related to the amount of fouling or the nature of the fouling with the 2f in smaller amounts? I seem to recall something of the sort.

From reading around I also came to the conclusion that with .45 being so often given as the changeover size that one can get away with either in a ".44", which is really a .45 up to .50 in my patched round ball flintlocks. But for anyone that loves shooting the .36's that they are likely better off with 3f.

I've also been reloading my .357Mag cases with 3f to use in my Frontiersman cowboy action events for this same reason.

 

[midland man]

I use 20grs in my brasser 44 no problem here! infact when I got it from cabelas it had a note in there that max is 25grs will be fine!!

 

[Panzerschwein]

The brasser .44 navies were copies of the Colts confederates.

Shoot no more than 25 grain of powder in them. They'll shoot loose with 40 grain loads (ask me how I know).

 

[Kaeto]

The brasser .44 navies were copies of the Colts confederates.

Shoot no more than 25 grain of powder in them. They'll shoot loose with 40 grain loads (ask me how I know).

No they weren't. The only brass framed revolvers the Confederacy used were the Griswold & Gunnison , and the Spiller & Burr and they were both only available in .36 .

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

While I will agree in principal that the .44 Navy's are not accurate copies of Confederate revolvers like they are marketed as, and that there is a lot of ignorance spread around about how the South had to use brass because they had no iron. The Griswold & Gunnison , and the Spiller & Burr are not the only brass framed revolvers the Confederacy (or the Union for that matter) used.
Numerous gun makers had models that utilized brass/Bronze frames, many of which are literally, or nearly long forgotten. The Walsh revolver comes to mind as well as some Colts

For prosperity's sake the Griswold & Gunnison , and the Spiller & Burr may end up being the best remembered due to all the repros that are in existence today.

 

[mr wack]

^^^^ yup ^^^^.
I have an ASP copy ( 1971) of the Schneider & Glassick ----- 36cal.
14 gns in mine is fine.