Dave A
Member
Has anyone had experience with both spring piston and gas piston rifles? I do not like the weird recoil of the spring piston type.
break action rifles
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Then you will double not like the gas piston.....they usually have a much more harsh recoil....goes double true if you go for a "magnum" powered rifle.
If you want to get away from that "double recoil" the only thing out there are MSP, SSP, and PCP type air rifles. Plus side is you can hang any scope in the world off of those with no fear of it tearing itself apart.
Notice the "double" in there a lot.....there is a reason for that.
If you want to get away from that "double recoil" the only thing out there are MSP, SSP, and PCP type air rifles. Plus side is you can hang any scope in the world off of those with no fear of it tearing itself apart.
Notice the "double" in there a lot.....there is a reason for that.
Bigdog57
Member
I have both. I do not find it a problem. There are methods of reducing the 'twang', such as packing the spring with grease to muffle it. Also filling the hollow plastic stock (for synthetic stocked rifles) with foam can help.
It's something we get used to with time, same as with AR platform rifles. It's "the nature of the beast".
After getting the Benji Trail NP rifle, I find I rarely shoot it these days. I have pretty much switched to single and multi pump pneumatics and CO2 guns. Just personal preference. That said, I do love my Stoeger X50 break-barrel!
It's something we get used to with time, same as with AR platform rifles. It's "the nature of the beast".
After getting the Benji Trail NP rifle, I find I rarely shoot it these days. I have pretty much switched to single and multi pump pneumatics and CO2 guns. Just personal preference. That said, I do love my Stoeger X50 break-barrel!
You're stuck with that firing action with any springer, but they do vary between models and power levels, and it can be reduced if you're willing to do some work. And the annoying spring twang can be reduced or eliminated. The nitro has no spring twang but typically a more violent action as fptg mentioned. Not always, and I don't think double, but lets put it this way; scope breakage complaints have gone way up since nitro came out.
The guns weird movement is caused by the piston weight and spring pressure behind it, so when you pull the trigger the gun recoils very much like a firearm as the piston is pushed fwd, then the piston slams into the breech/end of the receiver tube which causes the gun to jump fwd, aka reverse recoil. This piston slam into the receiver is what causes scope issues because unlike the recoil it is a sharp high G shock. You can reduce the shock several ways, like modifying the main seal, using heavier pellets, and if you want you can reduce spring strength. The spring noise is from the coil spring vibrating against the metal parts it can touch. This starts at that piston slam point and is imo highly annoying but can be reduced or eliminated with a few tricks and/or Spring Tar. Using Tar is similar to what BigDog mentioned except it's better because its super sticky and stays on the spring. It costs ~$8 +ship from Maccari. Get the black tar not the clear btw. Tar will also cost you power since the stickiness slows the piston down a bit, but careful application can minimize this. It usually won't cost a lot of power, and being slower the piston slam is reduced slightly too. If you want peak power you may want to pass and use another method. What I do is line the piston with plastic so the spring is held tighter and it can't make as much noise vibrating against plastic. There are other tricks too which I can get into if interested.
The piston impact into the breech can be reduced which will reduce scope stress, make a smoother shooting/quieter gun, and net you free power. If you want to take the gun apart and do all this stuff let me know at chevota at hotmail and I'll send a guide w/ pix on all kinds of tuning info to get the most from your gun at minimal cost. If you do not want to take the gun apart then you really only have a choice between buying a coil or nitro version, and whatever model/power level. Again the nitro is normally more abusive on the scope, but the twang of a coil is too annoying imo and is the biggest reason the nitro is so popular. A coil gun can be made just as quiet and my quietest break barrel period is a generic Crosman coil spring model. Crosman sells, or did sell a lower powered nitro Titan which is quieter and less violent, but also less power. It's referred to as the "695fps Titan" model C7M22NP. That's the .22 model #, do not get the 177 version. Or you can buy just the spring and stuff it into your gun, assuming it fits. Whatever you do you're stuck with that weird recoil in some form, all you can do is reduce it. But these guns are very popular for a reason because pump, CO2 and PCP are a pita, more so imo which is why I mostly have break barrels. All depends on what drawback is least annoying to you and the power level you want. A gun like QB79 is cheap and you get hundreds of shots per CO2 fill, so if you're ok with the lower power, higher noise, and having it filled then it's an option. A PCP Marauder makes more power than a break barrel but shots per fill is low, like 25-70 or so, and filling is the opposite of fun, or very expensive if you buy a pump. Single stroke pneumatic guns are cool imo, but low powered. Mid powered ones are too much time/effort to pump 8-10x per shot and still fall way below generic break barrel power. Kinda like firearms; do you get a 22LR, 308, 12ga, semi, single, bolt, bla bla bla. So lots of us get one of each
The guns weird movement is caused by the piston weight and spring pressure behind it, so when you pull the trigger the gun recoils very much like a firearm as the piston is pushed fwd, then the piston slams into the breech/end of the receiver tube which causes the gun to jump fwd, aka reverse recoil. This piston slam into the receiver is what causes scope issues because unlike the recoil it is a sharp high G shock. You can reduce the shock several ways, like modifying the main seal, using heavier pellets, and if you want you can reduce spring strength. The spring noise is from the coil spring vibrating against the metal parts it can touch. This starts at that piston slam point and is imo highly annoying but can be reduced or eliminated with a few tricks and/or Spring Tar. Using Tar is similar to what BigDog mentioned except it's better because its super sticky and stays on the spring. It costs ~$8 +ship from Maccari. Get the black tar not the clear btw. Tar will also cost you power since the stickiness slows the piston down a bit, but careful application can minimize this. It usually won't cost a lot of power, and being slower the piston slam is reduced slightly too. If you want peak power you may want to pass and use another method. What I do is line the piston with plastic so the spring is held tighter and it can't make as much noise vibrating against plastic. There are other tricks too which I can get into if interested.
The piston impact into the breech can be reduced which will reduce scope stress, make a smoother shooting/quieter gun, and net you free power. If you want to take the gun apart and do all this stuff let me know at chevota at hotmail and I'll send a guide w/ pix on all kinds of tuning info to get the most from your gun at minimal cost. If you do not want to take the gun apart then you really only have a choice between buying a coil or nitro version, and whatever model/power level. Again the nitro is normally more abusive on the scope, but the twang of a coil is too annoying imo and is the biggest reason the nitro is so popular. A coil gun can be made just as quiet and my quietest break barrel period is a generic Crosman coil spring model. Crosman sells, or did sell a lower powered nitro Titan which is quieter and less violent, but also less power. It's referred to as the "695fps Titan" model C7M22NP. That's the .22 model #, do not get the 177 version. Or you can buy just the spring and stuff it into your gun, assuming it fits. Whatever you do you're stuck with that weird recoil in some form, all you can do is reduce it. But these guns are very popular for a reason because pump, CO2 and PCP are a pita, more so imo which is why I mostly have break barrels. All depends on what drawback is least annoying to you and the power level you want. A gun like QB79 is cheap and you get hundreds of shots per CO2 fill, so if you're ok with the lower power, higher noise, and having it filled then it's an option. A PCP Marauder makes more power than a break barrel but shots per fill is low, like 25-70 or so, and filling is the opposite of fun, or very expensive if you buy a pump. Single stroke pneumatic guns are cool imo, but low powered. Mid powered ones are too much time/effort to pump 8-10x per shot and still fall way below generic break barrel power. Kinda like firearms; do you get a 22LR, 308, 12ga, semi, single, bolt, bla bla bla. So lots of us get one of each
Bigdog57
Member
"Kinda like firearms; do you get a 22LR, 308, 12ga, semi, single, bolt, bla bla bla. So lots of us get one of each."
Yep, my method exactly! I have some twentyfour air guns of various types and makes now, having gotten seriously into AG shooting since .22 rimfire became "Unobtanium" (though getting better). Great fun! And a lot cheaper to shoot.
So I have a bit of experience with the various types, except the PCP. That's harder to justify in terms of expense.
I have four springers, from a cheapo WallyWorld SPecial made in Spain (NOT a Gamo), to my late Father's old Daisy 1000S, and my Stoeger X50 and Benji Trail NP1100XL. All are fairly accurate, each has it's pros and cons. The old WW Special is the noisiest in terms of 'TWANG!' and has a horrid trigger. I hardly ever shoot it anymore. The others are okay.
Yep, my method exactly! I have some twentyfour air guns of various types and makes now, having gotten seriously into AG shooting since .22 rimfire became "Unobtanium" (though getting better). Great fun! And a lot cheaper to shoot.
So I have a bit of experience with the various types, except the PCP. That's harder to justify in terms of expense.
I have four springers, from a cheapo WallyWorld SPecial made in Spain (NOT a Gamo), to my late Father's old Daisy 1000S, and my Stoeger X50 and Benji Trail NP1100XL. All are fairly accurate, each has it's pros and cons. The old WW Special is the noisiest in terms of 'TWANG!' and has a horrid trigger. I hardly ever shoot it anymore. The others are okay.
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