Bring a revolver to a defensive handgun class

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I do recall seeing several YouTube videos by the same guys where "instructors" would yell "contact!" which would provoke the idiot student to perform a "combat roll" (loaded gun in hand) before engaging the target(s)
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If you ever run across them again, please pass on the links! That would be comedy gold! :)

They didn't use any flashbang grenades did they? Ninjy stars and judy chops? :D
 
Back to the question:

"Has anyone ever brought a revolver to a defensive handgun class?"

Yes they have.

That was easy, wasn't it?


Now... ask yourself "what is being marketed today as a defensive handgun class?"

1: A class meeting your personal needs to train you to adequately use the defense handgun that YOU intend to carry.

or

2: A class that meets the instructors need to generate revenue while entertaining the fantasies of the class regarding "defensive handgun emplyment", which for all intents and purposes (for us) ought to be RUN AWAY FROM A FIGHT as the first principle, and the rest of the skills can follow...


Find a class that meets YOUR needs... and take it.

You cannot go wrong with the 250 at Gunsite. You will likely be the only guy with a revolver, but they will show you how to use it to save your life, not to play a game.


Willie


.
 
But that leaves the question, is there any good schools that do classes where a semi auto, or a revolver would be equally appropriate?
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Yes, I have. I took three N-Frame revolvers to a two day defensive handgun course. That does answer your question, but my guess is that you're looking for some details.

The primary issue was that the instructor was not a revolver guy and did not know how to coach revolver shooters. He was not able to assist in tuning trigger control or reloads. Make sure the instructor is a revolver guy or all you're doing is training yourself for part of the class. You'll still learn tactics and such, but you'll be on your own for figuring out how to improve your groups and do a faster reload.

Many of the drills were not six shot centric. This is a good thing in my opinion because it makes you reload during the string. Reloading will occupy much of your time in the course. This is great since you'll get many repetitions--but make sure you do each rep consistently.

Also, your shooting will be slow. Your double taps will be more like controlled pairs from a semi-auto. Keep this in mind and focus upon shooting well over keeping up. You won't be able to unless you're already a proficient revolver shooter.

Keep in mind that your gun will get really hot. You will feel the heat if you have an IWB holster and you may burn your arms and hands. You will permanently burn the bottom edge of the forcing cone into multiple locations on the back of your right hand. Wear fingerless leather gloves on the hand that will push the cylinder out during reloading. You can use duct tape if you forget them. Take an identical gun and swap them out periodically to minimize the annoyances from heat.

Take a second gun, preferably three. They get very dirty after a few hours and can start jamming up. Take a cleaning kit and clean everything at lunch. Use FMJ ammunition or tuned lead ammunition that will not lead the barrel and forcing cone. This is very important. Lead also makes the outside of the gun very cruddy, so take hand wipes to clean your hands. They'll be dark gray by the end of the day.

Buy the moonclip tool if you use moonclips. If you use speed loaders, buy two or three loading trays and prep them. Perhaps keep them in a box and take the box to the line. Make sure to have at least 6-10 speed loaders and at least two belt holders (or keep them in your pocket). You had better have 20 loaded moonclips; they take awhile to strip and load up. If possible, load ALL your ammo into moonclips prior to starting the course so you don't have to mess with it. I bought 100 moonclips from Ranch Products and loaded 50 of them prior to class. Take a 2 1/2 gallon bucket for the empties. Speedloaders do not have this problem at the cost of a slower reload.

Improve the sights on your guns. Black front sights stink. Many courses shoot at targets with pictures of clothed criminals on them. Black sights disappear and you'll end up point shooting. At the very least have a white dot; gold dots, fiber optics, and night sights are much better.

Holster selection is critical. You MUST be able to holster your handgun easily because you'll do hundreds of draws during the course. A holster without a reinforced mouth will collapse as you sweat on it. This will cause you to do all sorts of weird stuff with your gun that you wouldn't do normally. These gyrations will create a bad habit, so avoid it with a solid holster. Avoid pancake holsters with thumb straps for the course. You'll waste too much time snapping it closed, so go open top only. Safariland makes a few K and L/GP frame belt holsters. Some people will argue that you should attend using your normal carry holster. I assert that it doesn't matter so long as the gun is positioned in a similar way. If that were the case, I'd have to take 100 classes just to accommodate the myriad of holsters I currently own and use in different positions (strong side, appendix, pocket, off-body, etc). In general, I take a standard OWB holster with only basic retention and some forward cant.

Longer barrels make life easier. I shoot a gun with 5" barrel 33% better than one with 4" barrel and a whole lot better than one with 3" barrel. Snubs are great for carry, but can you make it through 500+ rounds in two days? I know I cannot, so I use and carry large frame revolvers in class. Minimize your use of magnum cartridges. You'll really feel it after the first day and you need to be able to hold the gun to complete the second day. Once I attended a class with a Glock 23 and couldn't hold the gun after 200 rounds. I switched hands and could barely complete the course. Don't batter your hands needlessly!

I buy my stuff at speedloaderstore.com. They are prompt and buying six Comp I's and holders was very quick and easy.


ut between old habits and and an old injury on my non dominant hand that makes it difficult to grasp the slide, I can't help but feel revolvers are where I should just stay.
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Run the slide off your shoe, pocket edge, belt or the corner of some object. Use the slide release or grab the entire back half of the slide. If you use an object, make sure the rear sight is very robust and has an edge you can catch.
 
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Interesting responses to my post #16.

In it I mentioned running and rolling. DIDN'T mention jumping or any form of acrobatics. The running is simply moving quickly from one point of cover/concealment to another. Are you going to dawdle? Shoot and move. There's a problem with this?

The rolling has nothing to do with "combat rolls." The rolling I refer to involves rolling from a prone or supine position out from behind cover, shooting a few shots, and rolling back behind cover. This is a quick and effective way to shoot from behind cover in a low position as an alternative to sticking your head up or out. Good technique. There's a problem with this?

Agree with tomrkba's points above. Very good advice to clean and lube at lunch break. And bring enough ammo already set up in moon clips or mags. A good OWB kydex holster also sure makes things simpler in these classes.
 
It's fun! Pure and simple. These courses are not so much "defensive" as "tactical" or "advanced tactical." Lots of running, rolling, etc. Knee and elbow pads. Autos are the norm. Not better, just another form of fun. I view these courses as both/and, rather than either/or. Take both kinds of classes. Then there are the combined pistol/rifle courses. Lots of fun there too.

BTW, I'd bet few of those bringing Model 24s and 625s to these classes carry them concealed. Be interesting to do the drills with a 442 or LCR. Don't get me wrong, I love my 625, but can't imagine carrying it concealed. I know some do.
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Yes, they can be fun. But it's also serious training. I have never done any sort of goofy acrobatics in a class.

The last few hours of class are typically very important, people are usually tired and sometimes miss the point of the best part of the class. You can shoot yourself very easily when tired and not paying proper attention to the task at hand.
 
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moxie said:
The rolling I refer to involves rolling from a prone or supine position out from behind cover, shooting a few shots, and rolling back behind cover. This is a quick and effective way to shoot from behind cover in a low position as an alternative to sticking your head up or out. Good technique. There's a problem with this?
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Do they still teach this...I'd be interested in knowing where this is still taught?

I have a vague recollection of this technique from the early 80's when I first got into LE. I seem to remember that the Range Master picked it up from a FBI style class where he also picked up the "Combat Crouch"...where you held the gun one-handed at waist level, while you held the other hand over your heart to deflect bullets.

I thought they stopped teaching it when it resulted in LAPD officers getting shot during shootouts
 
moxie said:
The lying down technique I described is taught for sure at Front Sight and Cedar Rock.
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I'm not familiar with Cedar Rock, but I'll check with a Front Sight instructor at our next local match

The "combat crouch" if that's what it is called is taught at many schools, but the fist is not to deflect bullets (new one on me!), it's a counterbalance for the strong hand. Here's a pic of Mas Ayoob using it, or similar.
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Nope, different technique...I'm familiar with Mas' technique shown in the picture

The technique I'm referring to is a "refinement" of this position; but with the support arm's clenched fist place just under the chin and the forearm held vertically

felt58_fbi-crouch.jpg
 
Cool.

Cedar Rock is a small op here in Erath County. They teach at home as well as on the road out towards Midland/Odessa. Here's their link:http://cedarrockarmory.com/index.html Cedar Rock models their training after Front Sight's. Good people.

I'm unfamiliar with the clenched fist position you refer to. Sort of a contortion. Seems the "unrefined" position in the photo would be better.
 
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moxie said:
Cedar Rock models their training after Front Sight's. Good people.
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I'm sure they are and that does explain a lot. There are better choices available to model a shooting school's training on

I'm unfamiliar with the clenched fist position you refer to. Sort of a contortion. Seems the "unrefined" position in the photo would be better.
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It is the same contortion as that used in the Harries flashlight method. They fell by the wayside under the instruction of Bill Rogers
 
tom,

You got it. The tie mesmerizes the bad guy.

9mmepiphany,

Sorry FrontSight doesn't meet your specs. Any particular issues?

Re the Harries method. I agree with you 100%. I do prefer the flashlight high and off to the side, the "old FBI method."
 
moxie said:
FrontSight doesn't meet your specs. Any particular issues?
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Don't get me wrong. If it were between someone someone only willing to spend $100-150 for training at FS and not get any training at all, I'd highly encourage them to get the training.

I don't even really object to them instructing in less than optimal techniques...there is a certain demographic that it fits...but what I object to is that they sell the techniques as optimal. They also aren't open to the evolution of the technique that they instruct in.

I've taken classes from former FS instructors and have worked with clients who have taken their initial from FS. I'd like to think that I've formed an realistic opinion on their program
 
We're all blessed these days with lots more training options than ever before.

Front Sight is quite the marketing machine. That's certainly one of the pillars of running a highly profitable business enterprise.
 
Never took a training class myself as I don't have much spare income lately but of the several pistols/revolvers I have I shoot my 625 the best even though I have several of the "whiz bang" semi autos in my safe.
 
Front Sight is quite the marketing machine. That's certainly one of the pillars of running a highly profitable business enterprise.
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The number of shooters they run through their ranges in a weekend is astounding. A year or year and a half back, Dave Champion reported they ran over 700 people through their courses in one weekend! That is a huge number of ranges running simultaneously, each with several instructors.

I have no idea how good their classes are. I prefer to attend classes with guys who have put scum into the dirt with knife, hand and/or gun. I'm sure some Front Sight instructors have seen the elephant, but you're not guaranteed to get any one instructor.
 
Taking a defensive class with a revolver might be somewhat more challenging than the same class for the same person with a semi-auto, but I think it demonstrates that you know what you like and aren't fearful of learning to use it to its best advantage.
 
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