(Britain) Government lawyers say burglars 'need protection'

[Bog]

CZ-75: All I have to work with are the data as I see 'em... if it seemed like belly-aching, then I'm not presenting my view properly. It's more a case of seeing two sub-optimal choices, and trying to figure out which is the least-worst. Don't get me wrong - by all accumulated information so far, the US and the UK are the two least-likely countries to make me actually shriek over their mismanagement.

Doesnt' make either of 'em what I'd want 'em to be, though. I'm still trying to puzzle out which one gives me the best chance to shape a space for myself and my loved ones which I'm able to find tolerable.

 

[CZ-75]

I saw your view just fine. I'm only wondering why you're hanging tight to that lost cause where you live, when we could use someone like you here. Sure, we've got abuses of our rights, current and forthcoming, but it won't get any better w/o persons with the proper mindset to counteract them.

What I'm seeing is that you want to stick to the oppression you know rather than come to a more free location b/c you see a similar situation on the horizon on this side of the pond. I say that it's not here yet and you can swell the ranks of those wanting to do something about it. I'm encouraging you to quit belly-aching about what might transpire and come throw in your lot to help ensure that it won't.

Regards.

 

[Bog]

CZ.

Good point. Well made. I made it plain since TFL that I plan to come over, but have things which I have to do first. Those things have taken over to a certain extent - we'll see what happens. Thank you, though, for the implied compliment. I'll do what I can to live up to it.

 

[0007]

Bog, when you're ready, come on down to FL. We can still abuse burglers there, and CCWs are relatively easily aquired.

 

[Battler]

Bog - I don't like some of the things the Feds are doing WRT the war on terror; but think about it. . . . . .

You've heard a lot of Ashcroft-bashing. But remember, John Ashcroft is an honest man, and although I am not religious, I can respect (and trust) someone that devout. His religion is WHY he is bashed, BTW.

Recall also that he is replacing an attorney general who did WACO and threw Elian back over the wall after picking him up at gunpoint.

Ashcroft has fought to have gun records, as per law, left confidential.

Some new security actions have taken place. The airport security thing is unfortunate, I'll give you that. But look at the source of complaints that the US is losing its "civil freedoms" under Bush/Ashcroft. Are these the people who complain about the gunowner abuse? Are these people who complain about a Jesse Jackson shakedown?

They are merely complaining because it's a Republican in the whitehouse. Most of the complaints are at seeing TERRORISTS in red outfits on Guantanamo island, even while celebrating Castro, who does far worse to his own people.


Would you talk of rights? The US DOES have very powerful agencies that enforce laws, good and bad. But in which situation are you living under the greatest oppression? One with less gun bans; but with armed ATF agents ready to nail you to a cross? Or one with an almost total self-defense ban (like UK); but that people merely accept and consequently needs little enforcement?

The strength of law enforcers, in and of itself, is not an indication of oppression. Your freedom of your action that you can engage in without drawing their ire is.


There is no comparison between the US and the UK. Those (particularly in liberal media in UK) who call the US less free are telling you lies.

The only exception I can think of where the UK may be better for one is if one lives off of welfare (I include the school/transportation as welfare). But any slave has to figure out eventually that even with the "free food and shelter" slavery is a raw deal.

 

[agricola]

nothing amazes and saddens me more than people deriding the UK media for being wrong in its views of the US and then, in the next breath, the same people then make sweeping statements based on nothing more than what they have heard / read.

if the UK is so bad because it doesnt allow people to dish out their own punishment, then i am glad it is that bad. pain is not "the only language they understand".... if it was, then crime wouldnt occur in Saudi Arabia.

 

[MeekandMild]

Aggie, the 'badness' of the UK goes well beyond any narrow discussion about guns. I suggest you get up to snuff on your history. I won't go into gory details lest I be threatened again by one of the less literate moderators, but British statutory law is little better r.e. individual civil rights of the subjects than Islamic Law. Most of our ancestors didn't leave becasue of any great overweening British respect for their civil rights you know.

If you don't believe me, grab your fly rod and spend a weekend in Scotland trying to fish on the rivers or try to put in a garden on your own ancestral common ground.

 

[agricola]

rofl

Its nice to see the one of the staples of anti-UK bias sneaking into this otherwise good discussion. as i am in a biting mood, the Scots at Culloden were part of a rebel alliance that lost and paid the price. For every horror story one must remember that a good deal of Scots, though they would probably never admit to this, fought for the English during that campaign, just as more than a few English fought for BPC.

as for: If you don't believe me, grab your fly rod and spend a weekend in Scotland trying to fish on the rivers or try to put in a garden on your own ancestral common ground, I presume you'd be supporting the rights of Native Americans to reclaim their "ancestral common ground"? For every Culloden there is a Sand Creek.

meek you represent a trend in American opion that seems determined on one hand to laud the state of English law in the 1700s as codified by Blackstone and yet decry the state that produced those ideals. Personally, i find that state and that system abhorrent and I salute those ancestors of mine who freed the common man from the legal tyranny that was imposed on us. That the system is different from that which you consider as ideal for us is your problem, not ours.

stop trying to derail the thread please.

 

[MeekandMild]

Aggie, but YOU are the one derailing the thread! You brought up Culloden! I never mentioned it. Nor did I ever mention being a fan of the codification of crown law which stripped the people of their ancient rights. Your statement was a disinformation ploy wasn't it? You know as well as I that Blackstone was the basis for both the disenfranchisement of the 1800's and the midcentury wave of voluntary immigration to the US!

I do think your analogy between the rights of the British commoners and Indians was on topic however. (Is a little bit of light seeping its way past those tightly closed eyelids?) I think the same elitest mindset is present whether it makes British subjects captive in their own homes or reserves over 80% of US property for the government and multinational corporations. The only major difference I see is the Secretary of the Interior and the Board of Directors of the Fed don't wear ermine robes.

While you're out there fly fishing you might ask what the Scottish survivors of the Battle of New Orleans found when they came home. You really don't want to know.