Broke my 1911

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

rc109a

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
705
Location
Tidewater, VA
Well I took my trusty 1911 SA out to the range this afternoon. I fired 5 rounds and noticed a failure to extract. I dropped the mag and out fell the extractor. I called SA and they said it was covered under warranty if I send in the gun. After explaining that it was a simple piece to replace they agrred to send me the extractor if I send them the broken one for analysis. Not a bad deal since thye are paying shipping both ways. The only thing they mentioned was I need to "tune" the extractor. How hard is this? What tools are required? I cannot imagine this to be a difficult task. Any advice or pics? Thanks...
 
I would like to know myself. Why are 1911's the only guns that need to have their extractor tuned?
 
Not hard to do. Google it up. They need to be tuned because they are a simple leaf spring and do not have a coiled spring like most every other modern design out there. You have to bend/tweak it so it will hold a round under its own weight.
 
Hmm, doing a google search for "tuning 1911 extractor", I got 15,900 hits in 0.20 seconds...
 
CWL thanks for the useless information though. Much appreciated.
I did conduct a search and seen so much info, but not a lot on the tools they used. I also seen about 100 different ways to "tune" an extractor. What I was hoping to do is talk with someone who actually did this so I can make sure I am doing it correctly.
 
The reason 1911 extractors have to be 'tuned' is because of their design. The extractor itself is what applies pressure on the shell casing. To 'tune' it you have to bend it to change how much pressure it puts on the casing.

In most external extractors this is done with a spring. If you start getting failures to extract, you just replace the spring. Easy enough.

But, a well tuned 1911 extractor should run flawlessly for a really long time. There's been lots of tests that show they stay 'tuned' almost indefinitely, but I'm sure someone will chime in with personal experience and say otherwise.

I haven't put enough rounds through my 1911s to know based on experience, but my two internal extractor 1911s run flawlessly.
 
So that is why some 1911's went to external. It seems to be that is a better overall design. Being that said, I head Kimber had issues with theirs, and now they are back to the internal.
 
Go to Amazon.com and get a copy of the Kuhenhausen "Colt .45 Automatic - A Shop Manual" (just under $30). It will give you excruciating detail on how to do that.

In simple terms, there is a slight bend in the extractor. If it is straight it provides no hold for the cartridge base against the bolt face. - Creates one set of problems. If there is too much bend in it the case is held far too firmly and it will cause the slide to not go into full battery (all the way closed, also caller FTRB).

Kuenhause calls for 4lbs (plus/minus a little) extractor tension. I don't know any way to measure that. What I use is check how difficult it is to put an empty case against the bolt face.
1) Does it hold the case in place? If so you have at least the minimum tension.
2) Is it difficult to place the case in position (do you need to press fairly hard (rather nebulous, isn't it)? If it is, you may have excessive tension AND you will get FTRBs (Fail To Return to Battery).

The case should slide in with just over minimal pressure and stay in place when you wiggle the slide around.

Sorry that the description is so imprecise, but without a LOT of specialized equipment we cannot get a quantitative statement.
 
I have noticed that there is some modification of the extractor as well. I want to use the right tools and know that a dremel seems tovmess up more then it fixes in the wrong hands. Is simple jewlers files capable of making these cuts? What about polishing? I also noticed that some people talk about extractor strenght and measuring it using dental floss and a scale, but how is this done? Do you put a shell casing in and measure the point in which it drops? Where would you do the bend on the extractor and is it done in the gun or taken out? Thanks for the info so far.
 
There is tool that slides under the installed extractor that is the shape of a case rim. Some gunsmiths use this and measure the force it take to slide in/out of the extractor.
Before sending your broken extractor in the mail, study the shape of the hook and see if SA did any hand work of the engagement area. Take a picture and check out the replacement they send you.
Some just need the correct bend to adjust the tension.
The 1911 was intended to be mass produced with minimum hand work. Its not rocket science like fixing a Colt revolver.
A decent india stone set will work fine. Some parts are too hard to file well. A extractor is almost spring steel in hardness.
Buy the manual anyway, knowledge is always helpfull.
 
Thanks, that has answered a lot of my questions. Now I need to wait for the new part. Hopefully it is somewhat finished and not too rough.
 
The 1911 was intended to be mass produced with minimum hand work
Click to expand...
actually it was designed during an age when machine work was expensive and handwork was very cheap...gads man it was 1911...every part of a 1911 was designed to be handfitted, including the lenght of the magazines.

an improperly fitted extractor, along with the magazine, is the cause of most feeding problems. the internal extractor is it's own spring and tension is applied by bending the extractor itself..just the "right" amount. it used to be SOP, when buying a factory colt, to have your local 1911 guy tune the extractor, trigger, feedramp and change sights right out of the box.

i would personally have the factory install an tune your new extractor. you're already sending them the old piece, just send them the whole slide. when they return it, you'll be able to just put it back on your frame and go shooting
 
Springfield extractors are of poor quality . Install and use but spend the 30 or so bucks for a Wilson or Ed Brown. a good steel extractor will go many many thousands of rounds befor replacement. Their is a tool you can buy to set extractor. maybe if a custom smith or building every day might use But once in a life time waste of money. Go to above link and learn how to do no tools.
 
Topic thread drift

I was a master gunner for several infantry units during the time 1911a1 were standard issue for the armed service of the USA.
The fitting of a extractor was taught as a simple drop in replacement part,
Most of the weapons we have fielded for the last hundred years were made, issued and designed for simple in field repair by replacing parts.
Factory workers have had the use of patterns to guide parts production and quality control for about two hundred years.
We left the hand built and finished era many days ago.
Most of the problems with legacy units today are caused by out of spec componets.
Were now living in the time of the mass produced hand fitted part?
 
I believe you just install the extractor into the slide (of a field stripped 1911). Insert a round and note if it is too tight or too lose. Then take out the extractor and bend it by hand so that you can easily hand-insert a round in the extractor. The extractor should hold a round without it falling out, and yet the round should be fairly lose in there.

'Course don't take my advice to literally. You should talk to SA about this procedure.
 
Springfield extractors are of poor quality . Install and use but spend the 30 or so bucks for a Wilson or Ed Brown. a good steel extractor will go many many thousands of rounds befor replacement. Their is a tool you can buy to set extractor. maybe if a custom smith or building every day might use But once in a life time waste of money. Go to above link and learn how to do no tools.
Click to expand...

Good, solid advice, get an aftermarket extractor and throw the stock one out. You don't need tools to tension the extractor.

I've heard other things about Springfields being of poor quality. Are the barrels still two piece from Brazil?
 
It seems to be that is a better overall design
Click to expand...

No, the external is not a better design, just an alternative. The internal is easier to replace, and to clean. An internal also leaves one less place for dirt and debris to enter. If you have a 1911 handy right now, you'll understand what I mean.

There are plenty of directions on line concerning how to tune. There is nothing to it.
 
You can remove for cleaning, "tune", or completely replace a 1911 extractor without tools, other then a stick or FMJ rifle bullet, in less then a minute, while setting in a foxhole full of water.

Try that with the "new improved" external kind sometime!

rcmodel
 
A fellow by the name of Bill Wilson talks about tuning an extractor at http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm
Click to expand...

"A fellow by the name of Bill Wilson.......?"

Bill Wilson is founder of Wilson Combat, one of the first exclusive 1911 pistolsmiths and equipment manufacturers in the field.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/

That's kind of like saying, "I saw some guy playing ball. His name was Michael Jordan."

(Sorry, that just struck me as kind of funny.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

P
  • Locked
Is it worth shipping my 1911 back to SA?
Replies
20
Views
732
possum
P
P
  • Locked
MY Extractor Broke on me today at the Range (1911).
Replies
10
Views
419
possum
P
P
  • Locked
Called Springfield about Broken Extractor on my 1911.
Replies
18
Views
2K
Colt Smith
C
J
  • Locked
Best 1911 Internal Extractor - your experiences
Replies
6
Views
843
Boats
B
Ric
  • Locked
My Power Extractor broke!
Replies
15
Views
1K
George Hill
G
Back
Top