Broomstick vs. ball bat

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Lone Star

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This comes right out of the TV news here this week. A camera showed a couple of guys who had an altercation in traffic. One attacked the other with a ball bat.

The second man had a broom stick in his truck. I don't know why. He defended himself. TV didn't say who won. Looked like the bat man was winning.

I thought the broomstick man should have relied on quick thrusts instead of flailing away at the heavier bat. He was no Robin Hood or Friar Tuck with a stick. Stick wasn't that size, either. Too small for a fighting staff.

Comments? Ideally, the stick man should probably have had a gun and shot the bat man. But the broomstick is what he had.
 
Shooting the man with the bat would be justified . Bat's a deadly weapon.

But if all you have the is light stick, don't "fence" with the other guy or parry. Just be faster and hit him more. This is one I have personal experience with when I was kid, though it was not bat vs broomstick, but log vs. tree branch. Mind, we were about 11. Neighborhood bully grabs the biggest log he can lift from a wood pile and starts swinging. I grab a fairly straight branch, about 3/4" diameter, 2 ft, maybe 2.5 ft long. The log proves to be far too slow, taking a decent windup to swing, and he never lands a hit. I move into and interrupt his preparation, and beat the hell out of his fingers, forearms, and head. In no time he's dropped the log from some combination of pain and the realization that winding up to swing it leaves him wide open. In hindsight I was being "nice" by not jabbing him in the throat, face or eyes, probably because I was young, but as an adult facing a baseball bat, I would not hesitate to go there.
 
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Talk about road rage... The incident in that video was wrong on so many level. Clearly, neither one of those jokers knew what they were doing. I guess that is a good thing because it doesn't appear that anyone was seriously injured...thankfully.
 
In actuality the Person with the broom stick should have the advantage. A bat can swung and that's about it. A broom stick can be swung used to poke or slashing type strikes. A cool calculating mind will overcome a frenzied antagonist.
Just saying.
 
This doesn't have much value without the video.




Using a broomstick would require some training to go up against a baseball bat. The larger man with the stick did not know how to use it effectively while the man with the bat had the advantage of the more naturally wielded club.
 
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Broomstick would probably have the advantage until the bat man grabs hold of it with his hand.

quick stabs at the face and eyes would keep anyone at a respectable distance. The trick would be to keep the other guy from grabbing hold of it and walloping you with the bat one-handed.
 
Like hso said, thinner sticks require more training to use well. Most people grasp the concept of swinging something like a club intuitively.
 
hee hee hee!

... brought a stick to a bat fight.

or?

Brought a bat to a staff fight?

or?

Two tools fight with varying clubs....

Todd.
 
Um, that sure looks like the length of schedule 40 PVC pipe laying in the back of my own truck......Maybe folks where they are from use really long pure white broom sticks.

If that was a piece of wood I would think the fight would have been over with that first bash of the lower right thigh just over the knee.

On the other hand the same blow with a piece of empty PVC pipe might smart like the dickens but not cripple.

I do not think of my own PVC as a weapon but am just to lazy to put it away after a project some time back.

Also that bat looked like an aluminum bat given how it was stopped in mid swing by the batman a time or two. I have no desire to be hit with an aluminum bat, or a whiffle bat for that matter, but that did not seem to be a fine piece of hickory to me.

-kBob
 
It didn't look like either one of them was trying to hurt the other. They were just trying to make the other one back down, first. Mind you, this is a really dumb idea, but it's on the video. Guys trying to kill one another don't fight like teenage girls.

Comments? Ideally, the stick man should probably have had a gun and shot the bat man. But the broomstick is what he had.
Hell no. Stick man should have locked his door and called 911. If/when the guy tried to enter the vehicle, that comment might have some place.

The guy with the bat taps the door and doesn't even leave a mark, and stick man jumps out of the car and grabs a weapon (miraculously, the bat man who OP would shoot on sight graciously gives him the time to grab a weapon AND take the first swing!) Stickman deserves to be shot as much as the bat man... which neither of them really need to die today, AFAIC.

If you make no attempt to de-escalate, it's dubious. If you escalate, it's simply mutual combat. May the best man win. There is no victim in this encounter. Two idiots and two perpetrators.

Males of many mammal species spend 1000x more time fighting males of their own species than any extra-species competitor/predator. These fights can be extended. And in some cases males develop special physical traits for this exact type of combat. But in most cases, the fights simply end when one male concedes, and no physical harm is done. Adults should know better, but the instinct is still there. If you would have pulled a gun in this situation, you're dumb. If you're old and frail, you're even dumber to pull a gun, first. De-escalate. I.e., accept a "loss of face" in this instinctive male ritual, by "being afraid" to fight and the other guy has nothing left to do but walk back to his car and hopefully not be arrested later because someone called the cops on him. If you can't control your emotions and engage in this foolishness, then at least play by the rules.

Just cuz you're carrying a hammer doesn't make every problem a nail. If you had access to a firearm in this situation, you still had plenty of opportunity to first act like a rational human being that didn't happen to be carrying a gun and to take it from there.

All this talk about poking the guy's eye's and throat out is hilarious. If you're gonna fight like a bitch, just stay in the car and be a bitch. That way no one gets hurt. If you just want to get home to your family, stay in the car and act like a bitch and no one gets hurt. If you are Chuck Norris, stay in the car, and the other guy doesn't get hurt. If you just wanna be Chuck Norris, you fight "fair" to the immortal rules of male dominance; you roll those dice and you accept the consequences. There's no point here where a gun or deadly/maiming blows had any place. You can clearly see neither guy was fighting to kill. Any 10 yr old can see what was happening.

The bat man dropped the gauntlet. The stick man picked it up. If stick man didn't swing, first, there probably wouldn't have been any more fuss other than some harsh words. But stickman was game and swung at the side/thigh. Batman reciprocated with some weak flails of the bat, clearly avoiding the head. Yeah, this is a dangerous game to play with potentially deadly weapons, but there are still rules. In legalese, this might not hold up. But it doesn't matter. When you willfully engage in chest thumping and head-butting with someone, you're implicitly agreeing to an older set of rules. And if you break these rules and somehow manage to legally take someone else's eye or life when it wasn't necessary, karma will get you. Man beats chest; other man maims/kills him; that's skipping a few steps. At no point did stick man feel like he was in any serious danger. Else he wouldn't have gotten out of his car in the first place. He obviously knew why the other guy was angry. And he was obviously all too happy to participate in this game.
 
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Um, that sure looks like the length of schedule 40 PVC pipe laying in the back of my own truck......Maybe folks where they are from use really long pure white broom sticks.

If that was a piece of wood I would think the fight would have been over with that first bash of the lower right thigh just over the knee.

On the other hand the same blow with a piece of empty PVC pipe might smart like the dickens but not cripple.

I do not think of my own PVC as a weapon but am just to lazy to put it away after a project some time back.

Also that bat looked like an aluminum bat given how it was stopped in mid swing by the batman a time or two. I have no desire to be hit with an aluminum bat, or a whiffle bat for that matter, but that did not seem to be a fine piece of hickory to me.

-kBob

Perhaps, but a concentrated (very hard) jab to the coeliac plexus would have at the least made the guy wonder if he had made a mistake. When the guy held the piping or broomstick like a club he limited his options greatly.
 
The second man had a broom stick in his truck. I don't know why. He defended himself.
Interesting. That's not what I saw. Altercation starts at 1:55 of the video, and goes through 2:25 or so.

1. Short guy initiates altercation by hitting the big guy's truck.
2. Big guy gets out and advances, then returns to cab to put the truck in park. Note that when the guy got out of the truck and advances, the little guy winds up, but lowers the bat when the big guy turns back toward the cab.
3. Big guy gets out again, advances (as the little guy backs up), turns back and gets his own stick, then returns and starts the fight.

Little guy started it, but the big guy was the first to strike. Not that you have to get hit before you start fighting back, but once you get past the first 3 seconds, the big guy was clearly the aggressor throughout the rest of the situation. Two different times he turned away and wasn't pursued, but came back to fight. Obviously we don't know what happened before the video starts, but it isn't hard to imagine that the little guy (based on his actions - backing up, lowering the bat when the big guy turns away, etc) only intended to exchange insults, and had the bat out just in case. Of course that was a very poor decision, but he didn't start the fight. The big guy looks to have been the real hot-head here. Heck, he was so eager to assert his dominance that he got out of his truck while it was still in neutral and it started to roll away.
Ideally, the stick man should probably have had a gun and shot the bat man.
Wow, really? At what point of the video would that be a justifiable homicide, in your opinion? :scrutiny: You guys shoot people for vandalism in Texas?
 
I think that fight would have actually been a little more dangerous if they weren't using weapons.

I think each one made a fundamental flaw in judgment:

Bat guy was using the bat as a threat, and didn't seem serious at all about fighting. He introduced a weapon into a conflict thinking it'd be a talisman to let him vent at the other guy safely, but it only escalated the conflict. He let the other guy go to his truck and retrieve a weapon.

Stick guy aside from taking the bait to fight, saw a bat and assumed the best choice was to retrieve a weapon of his own . . . and turned his back on an armed aggressor in the process. Thankfully, the bat guy was only posturing at that point. Assuming the fight is on and unavoidable (it wasn't, it was a mutual affray), the stick guy would have been better served closing the distance and preventing the bat from being brought into play.

Fortunately, neither was any better at fighting than tactics, so they both walked away from it.
 
after watching several times..I am more convinced this was a staged scene....
I can definitely see that. These days a lot of folks want their 15 seconds on YT.

The thing that I don't get is, if that guy was brazen enough to walk up to the truck and tap on the door with weapon in hand, why would he give the other guy a chance to retrieve a weapon himself?
 
While the broomstick is more nimble, a baseball bat can also be used for jabs and thrusts.

Just turn him round.

But the BBB (BaseBall Bat) is much better for bashing and crushing blows. Me, I'd take the Louisville Slugger every time.
 
It looked to me like he was primarily targeting the head. He just sucked at it.
It looked like neither guy was trying to do any more than necessary to show they were not afraid to fight and to get the other guy to submit. The baseball bat is a poor weapon in this fight, because it is more lethal and the guy has to be careful how he uses it. He has no right or intent to use lethal force, and he never swings the bat with any sort of velocity. And I guarantee he wishes he hadn't brought it with him by the time the other guy starts pushing back. :) Just getting out of his car, stickman is calling his bluff.

Each guy is clearly aware that they are participating in mutual combat. Each one is clearly cognizant of what stated the altercation. And they both know it isn't worth someone being maimed or for going to jail. If you are unharmed and the other guy has a busted knee, you are going to be in some trouble. In mutual combat it doesn't matter who started it but the actual damages should be proportional/incremental if you don't want to go to jail or be sued. If you ever get a hot head as a teen loaded with hormones you know how this goes. In some parts of the country confronting other drivers with threats is like saying hello. It's a common sight and it often involves insults, chest bumping, and maybe shoving. You don't usually blink and see one person on the ground. It's usually a drawn out spectacle.

But anyone who does this enough will run into the real scary guys out there, the sociopathic omega males. They're the guys talking about jabbing the other guy in the throat or shooting him with a gun. They would rather hurt someone else than to lose face, but they don't play by the rules. The first blow they throw, it's going to be where it hurts. Other guy fronts/escalates, and they skip 3 steps and go straight for an incapacitation. With video or enough witnesses, they will be in the wrong if they didn't attempt to de-escalate. Otherwise, they may often get away with a wrist slap, legally. So even the most aggressive and capable alpha males usually learn to stop playing this game by adulthood.
 
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If someone goes back to his vehicle after being threatened with a baseball bat, my first thought would be "truck gun", especially in Texas. That confrontation could have gone a lot worse.
 
Years ago, I did some stick training in martial arts. My money is on Shanghai McCoy's daughter and her bo staff. Big man didn't know how to use what he had. Couple a' idjits.
 
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