Dave Williams
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 377
brownie
I sent you a pm.
Dave
I sent you a pm.
Dave
Brownie POP
- Thread starter Bruz
- Start date
- Status
Brownie, If you have to pull a knife you are behind the curve regardless of how fast you get that knife into play. I’ll ask you yet again to show me a scenario where a solid and smooth draw is not sufficient.
Bruz,
I have to say though, that this statement strikes me as somewhat ignorant. Assuming the “you†is meant generically, and both the attacker and the attackee are of similar skill levels (in reality the attackee probably has greater skill), you are trying to tell me that the person with a smooth solid draw will loose? Are you real sure ‘bout that?
Bruz,
I wasn’t speaking of the POP. I am speaking of the need to open a knife super fast as opposed to a practiced (i.e. familiar) solid and smooth draw.
Bruz
Member
I am speaking of the need to open a knife super fast as opposed to a practiced (i.e. familiar) solid and smooth draw.
Ahenry, unlike Brownie I am speaking as a novice with no actual experience so may I ask you a question. If you had a choice between a practiced super fast solid and smooth draw, and a practiced (slower) solid and smooth draw, which would you prefer?
As I said I am a novice, before the POP I was practicing conventional solid and smooth drawing...the learning curve has been so much faster (no pun) with the POP. Within the first day my draw was smoother and more solid with the POP, faster has been a fringe benefit!
Ahenry, unlike Brownie I am speaking as a novice with no actual experience so may I ask you a question. If you had a choice between a practiced super fast solid and smooth draw, and a practiced (slower) solid and smooth draw, which would you prefer?
As I said I am a novice, before the POP I was practicing conventional solid and smooth drawing...the learning curve has been so much faster (no pun) with the POP. Within the first day my draw was smoother and more solid with the POP, faster has been a fringe benefit!
The fast one of course. I think I’ve said two or three times so far, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with fast deployment. I will probably never spend much time focusing on shaving off that last half to full second, as that last bit has greatly diminished marginal returns. I still want somebody to explain to me (or show me an actual scenario) how a person will actually be better served with a 1 second or so faster draw. Lots and lots of emphasis in the knife world is placed on how fast the knife is to open and deploy. I think that emphasis is greatly misplaced, which is why I brought it up.
As I have said from the beginning, this is not a discussion of the POP, it is a discussion of the need for that speed. If the POP is actually better for other reasons, intimidation, solidity, similarity across knives, etc and the speed is a by product then so much the better. If, however, the POP is superior because it is faster, then I want somebody to tell me why I need that last little bit of speed.
brownie0486
Member
AHenry:
The short answer is "when time is of the essence".
Lag times usually run 1-1/2 seconds for the normal person to see the problem and react physically to the problem. These are airforce command stats based on 20-25 year old pilots who have better reflexes than most of us.
The faster ones are closer to the one second times.
I'm better served the faster I get into play if I have to react at all. I stated you started behind the curve defensively, it's that the faster deployment leaves your a## hanging out there unprotected LESS.
Lets take your initial response here. I wsn't talking a nail nick grandad knife [ swiis army ]to to ultra tactical folders, but lets use that one here.
Both are knives you could defend with if pressed to do so. One gets you into play in say 3 seconds by digging into your pocket and dgragging it out, using two hands to do so and the other in 1 second by touching the knife at your pocket. You are attacked by someone with a knife, club, whatever where you are allowed to draw and defend with either.
Okay so you stated you'd go for the faster technique earlier, which one did you choose? The faster one. I see you have chosen wisely given a choice. That said then, you prefer the speed where it might be an advantage.
You have answered your own question then, the faster deployment would be your choice. If there are degrees of speed through various techniques of the "draw" you may now choose a technique that you prefer to practice for your defensive presentation. If you choose one that is a fraction or 1/2 second slower than one you could choose you then have limited yourself physically from what potential you have.
If you like the smooth steady draw technique you have practice and believe it is adequate than by all means you have no need to learn something faster. You are comfortable with your defensive needs *** is. No problem there at all by me.
I choose to have several techniques in my "bag of tricks" so that I can recall them dependant on what my needs are at that time.
Using a thumb stud, spyderholes or opening disks requires you to do several things exactly right with the drawing hand and fingers.
If you have practiced that and have it down perfect even under stress where fine motor skills are not your best hope [ documented too many times to even go into that ], you risk fumbling one fo the steps you must perform to get into play.
Go with whatever you feel will work for you, we carry different knives as we are different and have different tastes, requirements in choosing a folder with which we may have to defend with are also subjective at best.
If it can happen it probably will as Murphy lurks with us everywhere. You are counting on not having to need the knife any faster than you now deploy and practice with the knife you carry. You are not erring on the side of caution and ignoring the very chance speed may be a factor in your survival. Thats okay also with me, it's just not something I'm willing to do myself.
I'd rather have something faster to rely on when I may need it than to assume I'll never need it and ignore the alternative.
IF I need it its there in a blink. If you need it it isn't.
We prosper or fail [live or we die ] with the choices we make in life.
Live long and prosper.
Brownie
The short answer is "when time is of the essence".
Lag times usually run 1-1/2 seconds for the normal person to see the problem and react physically to the problem. These are airforce command stats based on 20-25 year old pilots who have better reflexes than most of us.
The faster ones are closer to the one second times.
I'm better served the faster I get into play if I have to react at all. I stated you started behind the curve defensively, it's that the faster deployment leaves your a## hanging out there unprotected LESS.
Lets take your initial response here. I wsn't talking a nail nick grandad knife [ swiis army ]to to ultra tactical folders, but lets use that one here.
Both are knives you could defend with if pressed to do so. One gets you into play in say 3 seconds by digging into your pocket and dgragging it out, using two hands to do so and the other in 1 second by touching the knife at your pocket. You are attacked by someone with a knife, club, whatever where you are allowed to draw and defend with either.
Okay so you stated you'd go for the faster technique earlier, which one did you choose? The faster one. I see you have chosen wisely given a choice. That said then, you prefer the speed where it might be an advantage.
You have answered your own question then, the faster deployment would be your choice. If there are degrees of speed through various techniques of the "draw" you may now choose a technique that you prefer to practice for your defensive presentation. If you choose one that is a fraction or 1/2 second slower than one you could choose you then have limited yourself physically from what potential you have.
If you like the smooth steady draw technique you have practice and believe it is adequate than by all means you have no need to learn something faster. You are comfortable with your defensive needs *** is. No problem there at all by me.
I choose to have several techniques in my "bag of tricks" so that I can recall them dependant on what my needs are at that time.
Using a thumb stud, spyderholes or opening disks requires you to do several things exactly right with the drawing hand and fingers.
If you have practiced that and have it down perfect even under stress where fine motor skills are not your best hope [ documented too many times to even go into that ], you risk fumbling one fo the steps you must perform to get into play.
Go with whatever you feel will work for you, we carry different knives as we are different and have different tastes, requirements in choosing a folder with which we may have to defend with are also subjective at best.
If it can happen it probably will as Murphy lurks with us everywhere. You are counting on not having to need the knife any faster than you now deploy and practice with the knife you carry. You are not erring on the side of caution and ignoring the very chance speed may be a factor in your survival. Thats okay also with me, it's just not something I'm willing to do myself.
I'd rather have something faster to rely on when I may need it than to assume I'll never need it and ignore the alternative.
IF I need it its there in a blink. If you need it it isn't.
We prosper or fail [live or we die ] with the choices we make in life.
Live long and prosper.
Brownie
It's been awhile (years, in fact), but there's finally a video on this demonstrating the described technique (and we all know a video's worth more than a hundred words 
).
).
Last edited:
brownie0486
Member
Thanks on the update and link
Have you found any of the new Spydercos to be resistant to this sort of inertial opening since they've started trying to set them against inertial opening?
brownie0486
Member
I haven't carried a folder for 10 years since moving to Az. Haven't got any experience with the new folders, but the hardest lock mechanism to POP has always been the lock back like the Endura.
If it were more difficult to POP the new ones, I'd be prone to get the flitz out and go to work to smooth that action.
If it were more difficult to POP the new ones, I'd be prone to get the flitz out and go to work to smooth that action.
Spyderco supposedly has tried to make it very very difficult for inertial opening due to the abuses by prosecutors trying to convict on gravity knife charges.
brownie0486
Member
Good heads up, I wonder if the BF knife forum members have been addressing this, might need to get over there in the next couple to catch up on this type of news,
thanks for the heads up
thanks for the heads up
First I have heard of that, and I am a member of the Spyderco Forum.
And I can Spydie drop or flick all my Spydercos. Purchased since last November. In fact my Manix 2 was made last month.
They have stopped shipping knives to New York due to the gravity knife laws there. The last straw was a prosecution for a "gravity knife " in NYC against the UK Pen Knife. A non locking slip joint.
What!?
I can't wait for Knife Rights to beat these idiots in their lawsuit against this insanity!!!
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