OTF knives: Easiest deployment for combat?

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by TTv2, Apr 22, 2021.

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  1. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    So being unaware of what sheaths or carrying accessories are available means I don't know how to draw a knife quickly and effectively? Gee whiz, that's a red herring if I ever saw one.
     
  2. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll be more direct then, you have been operating on assumptions and no knowledge instead of asking questions (other than the OP, which really was more of an attempt at justification than a real question).

    When you are told the facts you refuse to integrate them, try to push them aside, or shift to other tactics to reinforce your assumptions.

    I own hundreds of knives and and dozens of OTFs. I've spent hundreds of hours at knife shows handling knives. I've even been asked to be a judge at knife shows because of my experience with the technology, design, materials, and applications. I've spent hundreds of hours training with bladed weapons. I even love OTFs as interesting machines requiring considerable design and construction effort. But...I don't carry one as a defensive tool because of all the informed reasons given here by everyone about their greater potential for failure to deploy and/or lock endemic to the vast majority of them.
     
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  3. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    I appreciate your greater expertise in knives, but you're also making assumptions in that I'm dismissing others and their thoughts and have tried to shift tactics when I hear something that's contrary to what you think I want to hear. Someone wants to bring up Marine training from 60 years ago that's focused on soldiers in combat both fighting with knives and I don't think it compares to Joe Six Pack being assaulted at a gas station by a schizo who thinks he's a Reptilian or in post 33 I asked a series of theoretical questions and no one has tried to answer them. Instead this topic has degenerated into how to carry fixed blade knives, not are OTF knives less cumbersome, more ergonomic for fast deployment than folding knives?

    I guess I made a mistake of using the wrong word "combat" instead of a defensive struggle, but I didn't think people would take the word combat and run with it thinking I was referring to a war zone. That's what you get for trying to keep a topic title as short as possible.

    We've gone so far off subject because everyone keeps wanting to bring fixed blades into a discussion I specifically didn't want to discuss and it wasn't simply because I was going to be told things I didn't like or want to hear, so please stop assuming that.
     
  4. 1942bull
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    1942bull Contributing Member

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    This was an interesting thread. It motivated me to find a source for knife laws of each state. I found a few websites. I thin this one: https://knifeup.com/knife-laws/
    I noticed that some states ban certain types of OTF knives. If you carry one and travel you ought to check the locales you will be in.
     
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  5. rust collector
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    rust collector Moderator Staff Member

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    The primary appeal of the OTF knife may be that it seems more deadly to Hollywood producers, and therefore to action movie fans. It is also more fidget friendly, if that is your objective.
    You have assumed facts not in evidence regarding the the way it deploys being superior to a flipper. You ask if you are right, and when it has been suggested that there are a number of factors to consider, you seem to have difficulty with that. We all have opinions, and you are welcome to yours, but please don't request validation if you are not prepared to give it as well.
     
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  6. Boattale

    Boattale Member

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    I don't see an OTF knife as superior to a flipper, wave, assisted opening folder, auto folder or fixed blade for any purpose that a knife is used for. Gimmicky.
     
  7. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Member

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    Ughhh........

    They all deploy differently. Auto (I think you mean side opening), and otf are truly one handed. That's not a gimmick that's actually helpful. Whether it's medically based like arthritic conditions or situational where one hand is already taken, an auto is fantastic.

    BTW, internals of otf have really good and strong locks, which I'd trust far more over liner, frame, or back locks. Also if the lock on otf fails, you don't lose fingers.

    Lastly, otf carries much thinner in the pocket, to where you don't notice it's even there. You can put a very light and thin knife together in a way that you can't with most manual folders.

    So watch this video, tell me if it's still gimmicky.
     
  8. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    4min mark he says he had the blade jam and had to improvise a tool to take it apart to repair it.
     
  9. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Member

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    Sure, which if I did that to a manual folder I'd expect to have failure as well.
     
  10. rust collector
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    rust collector Moderator Staff Member

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    If practicality was a design objective, I don't think proprietary fasteners that require a special $24 tool (that will usually be back at the vehicle or the shop) would be a good solution. The video did show the narrow blade to be much sturdier than I expected. I have no beef with OTF knives, but I'm a simple guy with simple needs.
     
  11. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Member

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    Sure, then go with a 40 dollar Taiwan lightning

    QXOF0id.jpg

    Otherwise as a knife gets more expensive it's not uncommon to use proprietary hardware. If you know a knife maker, ask them how many customers have messed up a knife by trying to work on them.
     
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  12. Nature Boy
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    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    When I was in the Army, the only thing I got into combat with using my knife was an MRE bag or the occasional fight with some commo wire
     
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  13. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Not with the knives I carry.
    That video is pure senseless abuse. Nothing like what the knife is designed for. OTOH, you can get that failure simply carrying it in a dirty enough environment with an OTF.
     
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  14. Boattale

    Boattale Member

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    Still gimmicky.:neener:
     
  15. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    I, like hso, have a lot of knife training under my belt. I usually go to class twice a week: typically at least 1 of those classes has some knife work. I started training 27 years ago.

    I have worked security in clubs, I have been an armed guard on military posts, I have been a juvenile corrections officer, I have been a safety officer in a crisis support unit, I have been a teacher in an alternative school, and I have spent 21 months in combat zones. I have spent A LOT of time training with knives and looking for and being prepared to respond to knives and improvised sharps. (Though the alternative school was the only place where I got stabbed. With a pencil, so I "only" had impressive bruising for a couple weeks.)

    I did carry several automatic knives on my last deployment. The Gerbers were tank heavy, but I did have a Spyderco Embassy that I carried that was almost delicate. I never used it for anything other than defense, for which it was thankfully never needed.

    The knife that I consider a "true" combat folder is the Spyderco Manix 2 XL. I not only abused the hell out of 2 of them (gave the 1st one away), but if I was limited to a folding knife for defense, it would be my first choice.

    OTFs strike me as expensive toys. I expect them to fail, and in an emergency situation is when I most need my sharps to work.

    <Shrug> If you want something cute yet sharp, a Microtech will fit that bill. Or you could spend $50-120 on a sturdy quality folder, and the other $300 on beginning to get some much-needed training.

    John
     
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  16. Mk-211

    Mk-211 Member

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    That's the one issue that no one else mentioned that HSO did, DIRT.

    Heck, just keeping a knife in your pocket will get lint, dust, grime... now, give it to a soldier! Try rolling around in the dirt, weeds and other garbage that soldiers get into.

    Pull your EDC knife out right now and look into it under the scales. I'm betting that most have a bunch of lint and dust inside of them. Now think about all that crap inside of an OTF knife. Then all the crap that a soldier could get in there. There's been times after running an assault course that I've had to turn out my pockets to dump sand and dirt out of them.

    When a folder, assisted, OTF gets all that junk in there, at the minimum hopefully you can blow it out. If it's bad enough, you'll have to take the knife apart to get all that junk out. When we went to the field, I always threw my folder in my butt pack that went on my belt. It was a safer and cleaner place for things like that.
     
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  17. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

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    Enough.
     
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