Browning BAR or Remington 7400 or ???

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This is a thread worth revisiting on a five year cycles as new shooters come and old ones go off to join Messers. Colt, Browning, Garand, etc. I have owned all of the above. THe Renmington was the first to go. The BAR (sport rifle) wil be the last to leave. The Garand is in the middle. Yes, I have hauled it around to chase mule deer (with 5 round clips in the magazin). It is indeed heavy and cumbersome. If the deer were plainning on shooting back the Garand would be my first choice. Since they don't there is not reason to haul around that much weight. One thing in the Garand's favor. If you do get a shot that is a setup, the only ones I take anymore, that Garand sure does lay across a rest and line up nice on the target. It feels real good- confidence is a big part of hitting the target where I want to.

The Browning is no toy. I have fired them offhand just about as fast as I could getting it real hot in the hopes if making a misfeed. Nope, that rifle will keep on feeding and firing for as long as ammo is provided. When hot I saw little departure from the ususal groupings. i am not quite at the 3/4 MOA that Snorkel Bob is, but moving in the right direction.
 
I've made several posts about the BAR and it's inherent accuracy. Obviously I would recommend the Browning BAR.

My MKI does not have BOSS but the standard hooded front and flip rear sight. My father's MKII Safari has the ported BOSS system. There is no difference in accuracy between the two rifles. I can say however, that my .308 non Boss has considerable more recoil than my father's .270 BOSS. Both rifles are topped with Zeiss conquest 3x9x40's.

Good lucking finding what you want. Also remember that the Browning will hold a higher resale value.
 
There is no difference in accuracy between the two rifles.
Click to expand...

Do you reload? I found a significant difference between BOSS and no BOSS as I developed loads for BARs over the years. I was always able to tune a load for a bit tighter groups with the BOSS installed.

With factory loads there probably isn't much difference.
 
BAR30-06-1.jpg
I have the BAR, Belgium made 30-06 setup with a Bushnell 3x9 scope. It has iron sights that I keep zeroed just in case.
The Browning has pretty tight chamber tolerances that I found out reloading for it. But I figured out the deal and now reload for it with 165 gr BT.

After some experimentation with different loads I found one that my BAR really prefers over factory ammo. It is pretty amazing how differently the various loads performed.

I have never owner a BOSS but my next rifle, a Browning A-Bolt 338 Win Mag will be with a BOSS. I like the concept of being able to adjust the BOSS to account for different barrel/rifle harmonics make sense, in addition to quieting the recoil of the 338.

All things considered, I think you will be happy you spent a little more for the BAR. I like the way mine feels. It is a great all around rifle.

I just looked on Gunbroker and found a page full of 30-06 BARs, new, used, with scopes, etc.

Happy gun shopping!
 
Do you reload? I found a significant difference between BOSS and no BOSS as I developed loads for BARs over the years. I was always able to tune a load for a bit tighter groups with the BOSS installed.
Click to expand...

With these groups and factory ammunition I dont need to reload, especially in a hunting rifle. Barnes X 168gr. 100 yards. The BOSS rifle shoots identical with 150gr. Barnes X

DSC03775redo.jpg
 
Even though this thread is several months old I'm going to bring it back up as like said above it's a good reference thread.

Anyway I have a Browning BAR 30-06. Mine is just the BAR as it's the older model. It was made in 1990 according to the serial number. It looked almost new only had one nick and one other spot when I got it. Now has some scratches and dings and stuff as I use it hunting instead of letting it sit in a gun cabinet all the time.

Mine works fine for hunting but I can not get it to group well at all. I finally found out I can get the best groups out of Federal Fusions in 150 grain. I haven't tried the 165 grain Fusions as far as checking the groups. I've shot them but never checked the groups.

Now I think some of it may very well be my shooting but I've also had someone else shoot it whom is a better shot and he experienced about the same thing I have with it.

I originally shot Winchester Soft Points in 165 grain and they got to where I couldn't find them instock so I switched to the 150 grain power points. I accidentally got a box of 150 grain Silvertips instead. I shot them at a buddies in a vise and I couldn't figure out why I kept missing the target at 50 yards after the first shot. I shot 6 times. Well, I went up there to check it out and turns out I wasn't missing I was hitting the same hole. You could count where 6 hit and just made one big hole. This impressed me. I think part of it is me shooting as it does fine in his vise but he only has a 50 yard range and I can shoot decent in my setup at 50 yards.

I decided I didn't want to use those for deer so tried the Winchester Ballistic Silvertips and couldn't get them to group. They were all over a 8" target. I finally after several boxes tried some new ammo.

I tried Remington 165 Grain Core Lokts, Winchester Silvertips in 150 grain again at 100 yards this time, Federal Fusion in 150 grain, Winchester Power Points in 150 grain. I couldn't get them to group well at all. All of them were close enough to hit a deer but they weren't great. Except for the Federal Fusions. I put them all in about a 2" group. The rest I couldn't do that with it was more like a 5 or 6" group at 100 yards. I'm not sure if it's me or not. The buddy only shot it with the ballistic tips but he said he wondered if something was wrong with the gun.

I know I'm not the best shot but I shot about a 1" or 1 1/2" group with my muzzle loader easily. With my .22 I can shoot great groups at 36 yards though but at 60 or so I can't shoot much better than the rifle at 100. I shoot off a card table that isn't super sturdy but it's not bad either. Being that I can shoot the muzzle loader decently makes me think it's the rifle.

Anyway I stuck with the Fusions and I constantly get about a 2" group at 100 yards with them. To me this isn't good but I came to the realization that I did buy this to deer hunt with and it's close enough to not miss any deer or if I do it's my fault. Can I squirrel hunt with it? Probably not but who wants to squirrel hunt with a 30-06 anyway.

I tried the Federal Power Shok soft points in 150 grain later and got a bigger group with those. I got about a 3" group with those and they shot in about the same spot as the Fusions. I then shot the Fusions right after it and got a 2" group again.

The Fusions have just gotten too expensive.

I don't like that it wont shoot great groups but 2" is good enough for hunting you just often can't even hit the bullseye as it shoots around it.

I've thought about selling it but not sure if I want to or not.

I like the gun but it doesn't seem to be all that accurate. Like I said in a vice at 50 yards it's great so it may just be me. I can shoot decent at 50 yards too though without that vise so it makes me think it's something about 100 yards it doesn't like but I don't see how that is possible.

I like the gun and would recommend it but if you are looking for a super accurate gun this may not be it. I've heard other accuracy complaints but then again I've heard some say theirs shoots great. They seem to be picky when it comes to ammo.
 
I wonder if anyone has tried the Remington 750 Woodsmaster, which is the replacement to the 7400. I am/was seriously considering the Remington 750 over the BAR in a 308 caliber. The main reason is price.
 
Hometheaterman,

I think you might need a good cleaning, and, to make sure everyting is put back together with factory torque specs. It should shoot better than that.

Bob
 
buy all accounts the BAR is a more accurate rugged and reliable platform BUT

This is one of those rare occasions where I would suggest obviously the inferior platform because of handling characteristics alone. The BAR's are unwieldy bricks in the ergonomics dpt compared to the svelte rem 7400/7600 platform. You shoulder up one of these Remingtons and it's as though they're already pointed at what you want to put a bullet hole in.

To me the Remington have the perfect balance of speed and handling for a hunting rifle
 
Had the Remington, sold it. Bought the BAR lightweight Stalker in 300WSM with the BOSS muzzle break. Scary accurate. Loud. Great gun. Bought the little brother in .308 without the BOSS. Not quite as accurate. Not as loud. Love them both.

This is a really old thread.
 
Hometheaterman,

I think you might need a good cleaning, and, to make sure everyting is put back together with factory torque specs. It should shoot better than that.

Bob
Click to expand...

Well, when I was having these issues I thought soo too. I got the barrel to where the patches were coming out spotless and have taken it back to this condition every time after shooting it. I've got the barrel super clean although I will say I've never taken it apart and cleaned the gas system but would this matter accuracy wise? The manual says only take it apart if the bolt is closing sluggish. Mine isn't so I just spray it down without taking it apart as that part functions fine.

I will say I shot 100% better as in a one hole group with 6 shots at 50 yards at a buddies. Probably a 1" -1 1/2" group but it was all one hole but that was in his vise and at 50 yards. Without his vise I can do decent at 50 yards but not 100 for some reason. He didn't have a 100 yard range.

I'm going to post up pictures of my targets.

Here are my first two shots when I tested the Federal 150 grain soft points.

first2shotswithFederal150grainsoftp.jpg

Needless to say I was impressed. I've done this a few other times with various ammo but it's not often.

I was impressed though. However, I didn't get any more groups like that.

Here are my next 4 shot group from the Federal 150 grain soft points
Federal150grainsoftpoints.jpg

If you measure it's about 3". I don't think the two together were 2 in a row but I can't remember for sure. I think I shot high then back next to the first one but don't hold me to that.

I was shooting 1-2 shots and letting the barrel cool. It gets hot after 3 shots so I was only doing 2 max.

Here is my group with the Federal Fusions.
FederalFusion150grain.jpg

As you can see it's right under a 2" group there.

That's about the best shooting ammo I've used with the Federal soft points being 2nd. The Winchester Ballistic Tips I wanted to use are all over a 8" target. I'd say a 5-6" group would be being lucky. The Remington Core Lokts aren't much better.

The 6 shot group in one hole I shot at a buddies at 50 yards was Winchester Silvertips but I can't get it to do much with them at 100 yards.

Some of the shooting may be me to be honest but I don't think all that much of it is. I had a buddy shoot it with the Winchester Ballistic tips and he said he wondered if something was wrong with the gun. That's when I tried many types of ammo.

I've come to realize this is good enough for deer hunting but not as good as I'd like still. I've had some people tell me that's horrible groups for a BAR and others tell me it's great groups for a semi auto.

Just for an example of my shooting another gun at 100 yards here is my muzzle loader at 100 yards I shot.
TargetIshotwithmuzzleloader.jpg

I shot to the left as you see. I adjusted the scope and shot the middle 3. If I can do that with my muzzle loader I'm not seeing why I can't with the BAR.
 
if you can afford the BAR, go for it. you will not be sorry. especially if you are relitively young, and have lots of years left. there is an old, true saying, "buy quality and you will never be sorry, buy cheap, and you will pay for it over and over". there are many things in life this applies to, especially firearms! kind of like the difference between a Lincoln, and a Mercedes, only more so.
 
So are the groups horrible on mine? Should I send it into Browning or just leave it like it is as it's good enough to hunt with?
 
Bump. Do you guys think I should send it into Browning? I almost did last year but wanted it for hunting season. I can now as I have time but I don't really want to have to waste ammo sighting the scope back in when I get it back as that often takes me forever. What do you guys think.
 
Sighting in should take three or four rounds. I know a guy that swears by the one round technique. Shoot one round with cross hairs on the bullseye. Clamp down hard on the gun in the rest. Have your assistant move the scope to center on where the bullet went, and you're done.

I usually shoot a few more just for fun.

Do you have a local gun smith who could take a look at it?

My .308 only shoots 1 1/2-2" groups at 100 yards, and that is good enough for me for hunting. I don't shoot 2" groups off hand in the field with normal game behaviors.
 
When I went through trying to find a gunsmith last year to look at it one looked and said the barrel was just really dirty. It was but we got it clean and the rest all told me they didn't know of anything to do or look for if it wasn't shooting well. None of them seemed to be much help.
 
hometheaterman - Some of those groups are not that bad for the type of ammo you are using. I think you could hunt with the ammo that shot best as long as you know here to place your shot. Keep practicing and your groups will improve. I am always practicing and my shooting improves as a result.

For whatever it's worth, my BARs all seem to like heavy bullets and, like every other semi I own, they are more particular than my bolts in the same caliber. In .338 I do much better with 250gr than 225gr and in 300 Win Mag I use 208gr amax or 210gr match kings exclusively.

If I were you I'd at least try a heavier bullet. Try buying something with a 180gr or heavier bullet. I don't load 30-06 but I looked at Midway and they have factory 30-06 ammo with bullets up to 220gr and many loads are done at 180gr.

If you want to shoot at very long range, make sure the bullet has a ballistic tip and uses a boat tail design. I like the Sierra match king HPBT (not a hunting bullet BTW) or the Hornady amax or SST.

If you are only looking for hunting accuracy at normal ranges try something loaded with 180gr Remington pointed soft points (Core-LOCK PSP). They are good hunting bullets and accurate at typical hunting ranges. They are not boat tail or ballistic tip but they are great for harvesting game at ethical hunting range.

Every rifle is different as to what loads it likes but for my BARs at least the heavier bullets produced much tighter groups.
 
I'm very sorry I bought a Remington 750!!

I was swayed by the thought of saving a little money and bought a new Remington 750 in .308 a couple months ago instead of a BAR and have been extremely frustrated by it.:cuss: I wanted to be able to reload for it and have been unable to get it to cycle reliably with hand loads. I have tried all sorts of powder loads, bullet weights, bullet tip styles and have been consistently gotten about 25% jams. It works mostly ok with Remington Core-lokt factory ammunition. I have only had them jam once.

I tried some foreign Bear ammunition and they jammed every time they cycled. Plus I had one fail to fire that sucessfully fired on a second hit. I could figure that was a problem with the cheap ammo but it could also be that the 750 is super sensititive to what ammo it gets.

I have a new magazine coming to replace the new magazine that came with it as a last hope to get it working. If it doesn't work any better I am going to trade it in on a BAR!
 
You get what you pay for. I've got two BAR's and no Remingtons. I hear the WInchester shoots decent but I have not had a chance to shoot one yet. The Benelli is also a great gun but you will be hard pressed to find one under $1k, usually seem to be around $1100.
 
Hometheatreman,

I'm no expert...I've shot only a few BAR's and everyone was impressed with my targets. I own a 270 safari and my dad owns a 3006 belgian.

As to your targets...

1) What kind of scope is on your rifle?
2) Are you changing the magnification in between groups? Like, do you shoot at 50 yards at 3x then jump to 6 or 9x at 100 yards?
3) What kind of rings and bases are on them?

Just curious.

LW
 
BAR ammo

I am distraught! Yes, I know this is an old thread but hopefully people are still reviewing it. I recently purchased an 08 BAR Long Trac 3006. I also purchased a Zeiss scope for it. Horrible groups using a gun vise! I am so disappointed. I only shot Remington Core Loc 165 grains through it. After reading the thread, apparently ammunition brand and weights are very important. The only real recommendation I saw was the Federal Fusions. I need factory ammo. Does anyone have other successful factory brands and loads you could recommend? I would be most apprecative!!
 
I have a .243 BAR that shoots fine. However my .270 BAR shoots higher each consecutive shot. Had a smith look at it, said he fixed but no difference. Any ideas? I would like to keep the gun as it was my fathers. He thought it was the scope, but we replaced it and no difference. Put that scope on another rifle and it worked fine.
 
I've had my 270 BAR for about 15 or 16 years now killed so many deer lost count, I call it the rut rifle ,its the only time I use a rfle rest of the time I'm handgunnin. But I got no complaints with my BAR it is and old friend.
 
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