Brush Gun

[Mr. Mosin]

Thoughts and opinions on this idea rollin’ around in my head of late. Something along the lines of an 12ga 870 w/ 20” mod-choked barrel, standard mag tube, with express sights regulated for the slug of your choice at 50yds for the taking of hog and other heavy game (I’m in S. MS, so my selection is limited ). A friend-of-a-friend did similar with an H&R single shot (except he used a white bead instead of express sights).

Theory behind it being you have what amounts to an easy handling c. 72 caliber smooth-bore “rifle” capable of running either shot or slugs. Sort of a “modern musket”. Any thoughts or ideas on execution or improvements I haven’t thought of ?

 

[Show Me]

Experimenting with weapons hunting pesky hogs, heck yah. Deer not so much

 

[Savage30L]

Choke might be the issue here, as the one that works best for slugs might not be the one that works best for buckshot. If you find the shells affordable, the relatively new Federal Flight-Control buckshot has a reputation for giving tight patterns even out of cylinder-choked guns, so that would be an option.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I've killed a pretty fair number of deer with shotguns using both slugs and buckshot, and one hog as well. 3-inch magnum 12-gauge #1 buckshot, with 24 pellets, really wallops both deer and hogs.

 

[jmr40]

I have several shotguns that could fill that role. I have an older 870 Express with a 21" turkey barrel that takes choke tubes as well as a 20 cylinder bore with rifle sights. I can keep all my shots on a paper plate at 50 yards with just the bead on the turkey barrel. Can do it at 100 yards with the other barrel. I prefer the turkey barrel with a modified tube with buckshot for HD. But they stay home when hunting deer, hog or bear.

In many parts of the south deer are driven with dogs. I can see possibilities using a shotgun with buckshot for this type of hunting. But for what I do I think there are better choices.

Thick brush is where I do most of my hunting. Needing to quickly get off a shot and then needing rapid repeat shots is extremely rare. It just doesn't happen very often and when it does the chances of a hit are extremely rare regardless of what you're using.

A far more likely scenario is to just see an ear or tail flicker in a small opening in the brush. You almost never see the entire animal. You're just looking for a small baseball sized opening in the brush to thread a bullet through to hit a vital organ on a stationary, or slow-moving animal that doesn't know you're there. And it's going to almost always be within the 1st 5-10 minutes or last 5-10 minutes of daylight where it is near impossible to even see iron sights.

I've found a short, lightweight extremely accurate rifle with optics to see the small openings in poor light to be the best brush gun. The idea is to miss all of the brush and shoot THROUGH small openings which means precision shooting even at 50 yards. Even a 12 ga slug will deflect if it hits brush.

I cut the barrel to 19" on this Tikka 308. It weighs 7 lbs as shown. Even with the scope it is lighter and faster handling than my 870 with a 20 or 21" barrel. It is extremely accurate and with the scope I can see to make shot far earlier, and later in the day than would be possible with irons or dot sights. No, I can't get off a 2nd or 3rd shot as fast, but you'd be surprised at how close I can come to matching a pump shotgun.

 

[Frulk]

M&M...You didn't mention if you owned an 870 or if you were going to have to start from scratch in this endeavor. I'm guessing you're looking at buying a shotgun to meet your needs.

Hear me out: If you have to start from scratch consider this...percussion muzzleloader in 50/54 or 58 caliber. You're pretty close to that .72 cal smooth bores knockdown power if not surpassing it in the .58

.50 cal at 385 grains will produce approx 1626 FP's @ the muzzle.

.54 cal at 425 grains brings 2029 FP's @ the muzzle to the table.

.58 cal throwing a 560 grain miniature version of Thor's Hammer lays down 2267 FP's @ the muzzle.

Cost of entry into the BP game can be dirt cheap. Probably half of your shotgun purchase. Traditional Thompsons can be had on the low end for around $200-$250 if you look around and bite your time. CVA's may come in below that. Powder and ammo are CHEAP compared to the fodder you'll stuff into that shotgun.

Upside is you can extend your hunting season and if you choose to, use the BP rifle during regular season as well.

Downside: One shot only Vasili, one shot only please...with apologies to Captain Ramius.

I have never personally had someone that shot one of my black powder rifles not enjoy it. Lastly...I've never had a Texas hog walk away from a BP slug.

 

[dodo bird]

One shot only Vasili, one shot only
Ah great movie. I just wish the used real Russian instead of British accents.

 

[Roverguy]

I have an H&R rifled 20 ga. Brass hulls from Magtech and either a .63 caliber ball (available from Track of the Wolf) or the DG Slug from Ballistic Products. The ball is a bit more accurate actually. Good out to 100 yards. VERY effective on hogs.

 

[Lo-Profile]

Theory behind it being you have what amounts to an easy handling c. 72 caliber smooth-bore “rifle” capable of running either shot or slugs. Sort of a “modern musket”. Any thoughts or ideas on execution or improvements I haven’t thought of ?

I bought a 20" barrel for my 870 for HD use. It has removable Remington chokes just like the 28" gun came with. Works great

 

[Random 8]

Sounds like you're re inventing the Ithaca M37 Feather weight or 870 police. I had precisely your gun, (the Ithaca) minus the express sights, but had the choke bored to IC. Find one of the more modern ones with a vent rib and the sights will be an easy add on. I've never used a lot of buckshot other than on coyotes, and that's a longer range affair with a heavy waterfowl gun. I prefer slugs for big game, and IC seems to throw them well

 

[PapaG]

After thousands of slugs through dozens of barrels I slowly learned there is no fits all answer. For Foster slugs my experience is that a mod or ic barrel and Fed TruBall slugs is a good starting point.
I’ve been partial to my 220 Savage and Accutips up to now but since IL got a little enlightened I’m using a single shot rifle.
I like your 870 idea.

 

[Random 8]

I found your 20" IC choked 12GA Ithaca Featherweight with vent rib. This is a modern receiver, so barrels will interchange if you ever want to go nuts and get a deer slayer or choke tube barrel. Virginia Surplus, Virginia MN. You'd have to look them up and call if you were interested. I believe they will ship. Good stock no cracks, good metal, some honest wear but no deep pitting. Mechanically sound. OTD price under $300. They also have 3x Rem 760s for folks who are desperate for one of those under 5 bills! My wife took over the short Ithaca and I can't get it back. I had to buy a second with the longer barrel, naked bead and corncob forend. I don't mind the slightly longer 24 barrel, the gun is well balanced as equipped.

 

[earlthegoat2]

This is a video I can’t stop thinking about regarding the use of a smoothbore shotgun that takes chokes as the next best thing to a rifle.

WILL A RIFLED CHOKE IMPROVE ACCURACY WITH RIFLED SLUGS?

Will a rifled choke tube shoot Foster (aka rifled) slugs accurately? Video recorded at the Buffalo Rifle and Pistol Range.This is a viewer funded channel. Su...

www.youtube.com

That video seems to be a wildly isolated incident however and other folks who have tested rifled chokes have had results completely opposite.

Rifled Choke Accuracy Test Mossberg 500 Carlsons

Rifled Slug Shootout: https://youtu.be/-Eph8nSeXggSabot Slug Shootout: https://youtu.be/FkoF1MySgYkItems I use regularly in these videos-Steel Targets: https...

www.youtube.com

 

[Armored farmer]

If you're wanting to shoot both slugs and buckshot or large birdshot, just stick with fosters and a smoothbore.
In fact you're better off with sabots in a smoothbore than birdshot in a rifled tube....imho
Rifling is very destructive to a shot pattern.

 

[Gordon]

In thinning out my collection of pre 64 Winchesters, I just can't get rid of my unmolested 1955 Model 70 Winchester .458 African . The express sights are so visable quickly to my aging eyes and plenty accurate coffe cup size to 50yards an d about a foot supported off hand at 100 yards. The factory 510 grain soft point at 2100 FPS showed me how much wood it plows thru so a little brushprobably won't bethat far off close in . I loaded

Hornady Interlock Round Nose Bullets .458 Caliber 350 Grain​

in the past and shot a few big Monterey wild boar over dogs with them . They are devastating at 2300 fps on big pigs at 50 yards ! They don't recoil that bad in the 9 pound Safari rifle . The factory 510 grains give you a 10 gauge 3.5" goose load type thump however !

 

[nettlle]

A 12 gauge slug gun can miss an entire deer at 50 yards if the slug hits a 1/2" diameter sapling halfway in between. In my mind there is no such thing as a gun that will not deflect if brush is hit.

 

[PapaG]

If you're wanting to shoot both slugs and buckshot or large birdshot, just stick with fosters and a smoothbore.
In fact you're better off with sabots in a smoothbore than birdshot in a rifled tube....imho
Rifling is very destructive to a shot pattern.

And, sabots should be fired through cylinder bore only

 

[PapaG]

I mean a fair number of slugs and sabot slugs through several rifles choke tubes including a six inch long one made by Hastings. My unscientific conclusions are that they make little or no difference. By the time the slug has accelerated to the choke tube no couple of inches of shallow rifling is going to do much.
The old Paradox guns with rifling in the last few inches of barrel were made for large lead bullets at relatively slow black powder velocities and did work.
My tests weren't extensive, however.

 

[Hookeye]

Remington made rifle sight smoothbore barrels w Remchoke.
I didn't experiment much when I had one. The rifled choketube would lead up pretty quickly w fosters.
Easy enough to unscrew and clean, put back.
Did fire a fouler or two and then it was OK.
But only for about 10 shots.

Actually saw a blued bbl like that at a shop for $200.

If I had a magnum 870 I'd get that bbl and set it up for HD.