bubba VS. sporter
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mustanger98
Member
Rembrandt, Did you photoshop those or find 'em somewhere? Or did somebody really do that? If somebody actually did that, it does about as much good for the weapon as hacking up a C96 Mauser pistol to make Han Solo's blaster or hacking a SMLE to make that rig the Ewoks had.
Now, if ya'll go back and re-read what I posted, you'll see where I'm more into the idea of building a sporting rifle on the action of a rifle that's already been goofed up. There's a No.1Mk3 on gunbroker right now that's been done wrong IMO... it's an incompleted sporter project and somebody with some vision could make something useful and possibly aesthetically pleasing out of it. But like I said, if I find a deal on an action or a rifle Bubba's already had hold of, regardless of make and model, if I buy it I'll either restore it or sporter it. It's a rescue job either way.
To the scope snobs (not that all scope shooters are snobs, but many are), I say... you can bet my sporter builds won't have a scope. Of course, you might call me an aperture sight snob, but that would ignore the fact that a couple of my commercially built sporters have scopes. The milsurp-iron-sight snobs (again, not that all are snobs) might consider me an aperture snob also, but I have rifles with both types... open and aperture.
To the commercial trigger snobs, I say I've squeezed some mighty fine 2-stage military triggers too. To the military trigger snobs, I also say I like my Savage AccuTrigger real well too.
I say that realizing that many people like all types of sights and triggers because many people... people I'm around, anyway... like to shoot a wide variety. I don't know too many purists, but I do know people who can appreciate a good old Mauser or Enfield as issued or built into (as opposed to "hacked") a sporter at the same time as liking a pre-64 Model 70 or a .30-30 levergun of any brand. Folks I know personally just tend to like guns in general. This ain't religion.
Now, if ya'll go back and re-read what I posted, you'll see where I'm more into the idea of building a sporting rifle on the action of a rifle that's already been goofed up. There's a No.1Mk3 on gunbroker right now that's been done wrong IMO... it's an incompleted sporter project and somebody with some vision could make something useful and possibly aesthetically pleasing out of it. But like I said, if I find a deal on an action or a rifle Bubba's already had hold of, regardless of make and model, if I buy it I'll either restore it or sporter it. It's a rescue job either way.
To the scope snobs (not that all scope shooters are snobs, but many are), I say... you can bet my sporter builds won't have a scope. Of course, you might call me an aperture sight snob, but that would ignore the fact that a couple of my commercially built sporters have scopes. The milsurp-iron-sight snobs (again, not that all are snobs) might consider me an aperture snob also, but I have rifles with both types... open and aperture.
To the commercial trigger snobs, I say I've squeezed some mighty fine 2-stage military triggers too. To the military trigger snobs, I also say I like my Savage AccuTrigger real well too.
I say that realizing that many people like all types of sights and triggers because many people... people I'm around, anyway... like to shoot a wide variety. I don't know too many purists, but I do know people who can appreciate a good old Mauser or Enfield as issued or built into (as opposed to "hacked") a sporter at the same time as liking a pre-64 Model 70 or a .30-30 levergun of any brand. Folks I know personally just tend to like guns in general. This ain't religion.
My $.02
It all appears to be a question on where one places the value of the gun.
I have had many converted milsurps. I have converted them. To some I have sinned but I do not apologize. My guns were individuals, custom crafted to what I wanted, from .22-250 to .458 Win Mag.
To those who moan that I destroyed the value of the gun, I DON'T CARE! It is of no concern to me that 30 or 40 years later the original condition guns bring a higher price. At the time they were cheap, THAT'S WHY WE DID IT!
Some people have a large definition of "bubba". By one definition, if I sent a M1911A1 to a custom smith for a work over, that would make it a "bubba". I don't agree.
Milsurps are a lot of fun, and have history, and surviving pristine examples ought to be preserved. But they are not (and never were) the holy grail of rifles. That is something different for each shooter.
I do collect milsurp guns. I also collect fine guns that started out life as milsurp. Sporterized rifles range from the "bubba" chop job (baja bug) to fine custom rifles (custom choppers/funny cars/street rods).
There are hack jobs, and there are improvements. Just because you may see them all in the same light doesn't mean I do.
It all appears to be a question on where one places the value of the gun.
I have had many converted milsurps. I have converted them. To some I have sinned but I do not apologize. My guns were individuals, custom crafted to what I wanted, from .22-250 to .458 Win Mag.
To those who moan that I destroyed the value of the gun, I DON'T CARE! It is of no concern to me that 30 or 40 years later the original condition guns bring a higher price. At the time they were cheap, THAT'S WHY WE DID IT!
Some people have a large definition of "bubba". By one definition, if I sent a M1911A1 to a custom smith for a work over, that would make it a "bubba". I don't agree.
Milsurps are a lot of fun, and have history, and surviving pristine examples ought to be preserved. But they are not (and never were) the holy grail of rifles. That is something different for each shooter.
I do collect milsurp guns. I also collect fine guns that started out life as milsurp. Sporterized rifles range from the "bubba" chop job (baja bug) to fine custom rifles (custom choppers/funny cars/street rods).
There are hack jobs, and there are improvements. Just because you may see them all in the same light doesn't mean I do.
Cosmoline
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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
Now this I agree with; there are many surplus guns that are simply great all-round rifles as they are. About the only specialized purpose a great number would fall short as they are is precision competition shooting, and even then no doubt a number of individual pieces might well be very competitive.
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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
4fingermick
Member
Check this out!
This unloved rifle was left on the shelf when a gunshop went out of business. A few years later I was given it, but when I went to pick it up there was a big storage fee and transfer fee to pay, came to $AU125, which is a lot for a rifle that has the action (ex Nazi markings) wrecked by welding the rear mount on (probably screwed up drilling the mounting screws), very sad barrel, chopped stock, cheap a$$ed scope. Didn't have much going for it at all. My mate wanted a rifle for his nephew, a keen pig hunter who only used dogs and a knife. I let him have it for the $125 and threw in forty or fifty F4 7.62s.
The new owner loves it, it has flattened heaps of pigs and roos. Probably only shoots 3MOA, but there are lots of dead things on the grass out there which proves that this rifle is still a viable unit.
I don't agree with sporterising rare rifles in excellent or mint condition, they are becoming rare. What you have to remember is that most of these rifles were sporterised when new rifles were very expensive and bucks were a lot taller than they are now. To properly sporterise a rifle now, it would probably be cheaper to buy a new Mossberg or Stevens or similar. That option wasn't there years ago. I have a semi finished Mauser stock, a Lyman peep sight coming, I'm looking for a cheap rifle or action to make a 338WM. Mad, but I always fancied one, I can get a new Ruger, Howa or Weatherby for the cost of a decent barrel.
This unloved rifle was left on the shelf when a gunshop went out of business. A few years later I was given it, but when I went to pick it up there was a big storage fee and transfer fee to pay, came to $AU125, which is a lot for a rifle that has the action (ex Nazi markings) wrecked by welding the rear mount on (probably screwed up drilling the mounting screws), very sad barrel, chopped stock, cheap a$$ed scope. Didn't have much going for it at all. My mate wanted a rifle for his nephew, a keen pig hunter who only used dogs and a knife. I let him have it for the $125 and threw in forty or fifty F4 7.62s.
The new owner loves it, it has flattened heaps of pigs and roos. Probably only shoots 3MOA, but there are lots of dead things on the grass out there which proves that this rifle is still a viable unit.
I don't agree with sporterising rare rifles in excellent or mint condition, they are becoming rare. What you have to remember is that most of these rifles were sporterised when new rifles were very expensive and bucks were a lot taller than they are now. To properly sporterise a rifle now, it would probably be cheaper to buy a new Mossberg or Stevens or similar. That option wasn't there years ago. I have a semi finished Mauser stock, a Lyman peep sight coming, I'm looking for a cheap rifle or action to make a 338WM. Mad, but I always fancied one, I can get a new Ruger, Howa or Weatherby for the cost of a decent barrel.
Ash
Member
I can show you a Winchester 1895 leveraction rifle convered to 45-70 (I believe) that started its life as a Russian musket, fully stocked, with bayo lug and chambered for the 7.62x54R round. It sold for $500. Had it been original, it would have sold for $1,200-$1,500. Subtract the money spent to sporterize (including the new barrel) and tell me where the guy came out ahead. Even 95's with bad bores go for significantly more than $500.
The mentality behind sporterizing a military rifle (and the majority are hack jobs, everyone has to admit to that) is the same that "modernizes" old houses. The Stephen D. Lee home in Columbus, Mississippi, was an antebellum Greek Revival home that had been sold with all furnature and contents since prior to the War Between the States. You could read books owned and read by generations from the past. It was called "White Arches." 10 years ago, it was bought by a trucking company owner, whose wife decided to improve on that home. She knocked out walls, put in doors, and painted/papered over original hand painted walls (like wall paper, but the design painted directly on the walls). They sold off furnature and books, so that in but a few years, the character of the home had been forever lost. The people then didn't even have the common decency to stay in the home, but sold it when they were tired of it. They moved in, destroyed, and left. That is Bubba. That is what he does. And he is far more prolific than any master craftsman mentioned here. And he destroys truly rare pieces over and over again. I have seen his work. Very rare rifles "improved" with synthetic sporter stocks, chopped barrels, and the like.
Ash
The mentality behind sporterizing a military rifle (and the majority are hack jobs, everyone has to admit to that) is the same that "modernizes" old houses. The Stephen D. Lee home in Columbus, Mississippi, was an antebellum Greek Revival home that had been sold with all furnature and contents since prior to the War Between the States. You could read books owned and read by generations from the past. It was called "White Arches." 10 years ago, it was bought by a trucking company owner, whose wife decided to improve on that home. She knocked out walls, put in doors, and painted/papered over original hand painted walls (like wall paper, but the design painted directly on the walls). They sold off furnature and books, so that in but a few years, the character of the home had been forever lost. The people then didn't even have the common decency to stay in the home, but sold it when they were tired of it. They moved in, destroyed, and left. That is Bubba. That is what he does. And he is far more prolific than any master craftsman mentioned here. And he destroys truly rare pieces over and over again. I have seen his work. Very rare rifles "improved" with synthetic sporter stocks, chopped barrels, and the like.
Ash
Ash
Member
Of course, if somebody must sporterize, why not go to the pawn shop and work with something already bubba'd? They are legion already, and anything done to them isn't a sin.
Ash
Ash
mustanger98
Member
This is a real big part of what I've been saying.
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