Building a Tactical Shotgun

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KDS

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Hey guys, I want to build a tactical shotgun to go with my AR for home defense situations. I am thinking about starting with this 870

www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-tactical.aspx

I would like to change the stock to something like this http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=519916

and the forend to something like this http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=853511

I plan to add a Streamlight TLR-1 light to the rail on the forend and am thinking about some kind of red dot but haven't decided on that yet. I may just go with some kind of upgraded night sites. I'm also considering a tactical sling that holds extra shells and a side saddle. I would like to be able to store 00 Buck in the stock and slugs in the side saddle or vise versa.

What I am looking for are suggestions for similar stocks or forends to what I have shown that you would recommend. Also suggestions on sites or a red dot and other tactical gear like slings or side saddles would also be appreciated.
 
By the way, I know the word tactical is thrown around a lot, I just wasn't sure what else to call it. I really want something that is reliable, handy and accurate with both slugs and shot. I want something that is easy to use in low light conditions. I live in Florida and want a shotgun that would be my go to gun if a hurricane hit our area and we were without services for a week or so. Always good to be prepared.
 
Have you looked at a Saiga 12? Lots of after market stuff. Try a pistol grip before you buy one you might not like it...Russ
 
A Sidesaddle would give you a few extra shells on the gun without having to spend the money on that stock, but that isn't to say you can't do the stock as an and/or.

That forearm, on the other hand, isn't going to do anything but make your support hand very uncomfortable. Unless you're planning to hang a light, laser, bipod and fuzzy dice off the thing, what use is a tri-rail other than to "look cool"?

This Streamlight mount was recommended to me by Lee Lapin and I would definitely trust his endorsement:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/streamlight-rem-870-tactical-mount-69906.html

A sling is probably not going to hold shells very tightly, and with the weight of the shells it will flop all over the place and make noise if you have to use the gun; this in addition to the general consensus that a sling isn't the greatest thing to have on an indoors shotgun due to risk of snagging.

Unless it's a dedicated slug gun, the red dot is just going to slow you down.

Is this intended to be a "srs bzns" practical-tactical or just a look-cool gun? You have elements of both.

Probably worth reading through Dave McC's "101" threads (stickied at the top of this section) and Lee Lapin's opinions of what works on a fighting shotgun and what is just extraneous weight...
 
Are you really going to need a breaching tool on the end?

A basic 870, regular stock, lots of ammo and practice, including a lesson or three, will be all you need.

A sling with ammo will throw off any handling qualities - better off with a hard-mounted side saddle

A flashlight would be the only extra I MIGHT consider - you don't need a red dot for HD - don't mall-ninja the gun, keep it simple and practice a LOT
 
I am going to suggest that you shoot an 870 in stock configuration for a while before you make any changes to its weight/balance. Years ago, I went down the path that you're on. I spent lots of money on stocks and lights and extended magazines and sidesaddles and all sorts of stuff. And then I found out that I couldn't shoot it as well as I could before, because the weight and balance of the gun were destroyed by my changes.

I'm not trying to sound like a fudd, but shotguns are different than rifles. They are not aimed - they are pointed. They excel at shooting at moving objects specifically because they point. When you remove that attribute, you diminish the effectivity of the weapon enormously. Until you shoot shotguns for a while, what I just typed doesn't mean all that much. It sounds dorky. But do yourself a favor and go shoot a shotgun at clays for a while, and you'll come to understand the real value in a fighting shotgun.

Specific to some of the things you're looking at:

  • I'm not a huge fan of the Remington tactical gun for several reasons; the muzzle device is silly and adds no net value, and I prefer bead sights for close up work. Bead sights are just faster for me, and inside of my house I need no greater accuracy than bead sights provide.
  • Rails HURT. They are cheese graters. So the next thing you have to do is put rail covers on the rails. Then the forearm is HUGE and ungainly and handles like a soggy fencepost. You'll be much happier with a forearm with dedicated light on it, and skipping the rails.
  • I hate ammo-carrying slings. The weight of the ammo makes the sling whip around and the whole setup just doesn't move properly. I don't recommend them at all. I also don't like slings for interior defense guns. Some folk do. I don't. I simply don't want to have a sling catching on anything while I'm moving around, and I'm willing to lose the ability to retain the gun and keep both hands free to ensure that my HD gun is snag-free. My choice - YMMV.
  • I do not like receiver-based sidesaddles. They mount exactly where I want to grap the shotgun, they poke me and make me bleed because they stick out in all the wrong places, and they usually mount using the trigger assembly pins and most every one that I've seen mounted that way caused some binding/deformation of the receiver/trigger group. If you feel like you need additional ammo stored on the gun, I feel that a butt cuff is probably a better choice. Other may disagree, and will come along soon to tell me so. :)
 
KDS, you might think about starting with a police-trade in and going from there. Budsgunshop.com had some pretty interesting deals last I checked.
 
Hello all, RON L here - SERE SURPLUS

I had a simular though a few months back, I started with a Plane jane Rem 870 Express with a sad Looking wooden stock and forend, after Months of Playing with it and buying parts on the cheap as I could here and there off news groups! I chopped the 28" Barrle down to 20" (Re-mouted the Beat site) , I added a Black Synthetic stock set, sold the wooden set after re-finish and made most the Synthetic stock $ back, then added a Extended tube kit, now mine will hold 7 shots of 2 3/4, I then added a Lazer to the tube kit and a Barrel/Tube clamp with sling swivel! I wanted a few extra shots so I added a cheap stock shell holder, then a Side Saddle showed up in a Trade, and I added that! I will try and post some Pics later, all in all less than 300$ spent and that works for me! Plus, I could affoard it! Simular set up shotgun sets from Wilson and others 2K?? Not to me thats for sure! I'd love a Better and prettier rig, but this one works and I know the gun in and out now, so I benifited from the alterations as well!
 
If I ever have to use a shotgun for home defense, I see myself grabbing my pawnshop mossberg on the way to the front door as someone kicks it down, and firing one maybe two 3 inch shells, of 15 pellet 00 buck. I want speed and reliability, therefore I don't have a light, red dot, sling or side saddle on it. At 7 yds no sights are necessary, as are follow up shots. (realistically how many 12 guage shells does it take, to make a person(s) a non-threat). If I use it and the police take it, no biggie I can get another at wall-mart for $250 or less. I also put a longer barrel on it and use it for clays and birds, so I get extra practice with it.

IMHO that's as good as it gets for a HD shotgun. Although those FN, Benelli and Remmington Shotguns look great, I just cannot envision a scenario in which I could really use anything other than what I have. I am a civilian so 8 shots of 12 ga. into a dead body might raise some questions. (especially w a 5 shot tube.).
 
The first step in obtaining a tactical shotgun is to assume a tactical mind set.

The most doodadded up gun in the world ain't gonna help you if you don't know how to use it, whereas Grandad's old double barrel will be quite effective in the right hands.
 
+1 for starting with a used 870P, or a short barreled Wingmaster, either way you'd be getting way more gun for less money.

And as mentioned above, keep it as basic as possible.
 
All great advice and why I come to this site. So let me try to answer some of the questions posed so far. I don't want a mall ninja gun. I've totally nixed the sling idea. Also the red dot is gone.

I do want to mount a light and a streamlight is inexpensive and light. That is why I wanted a rail. what about a forend that only has a small rail? I know Surefire makes a forend with light but I can get a Streamlight and forend w/rail for half the price.

As for the breaching tool, I don't even know what that is. I thought it was a ported choke. I have heard that a choke can be a good idea and porting will help with recoil. Is this not so?

How is a bead site in low light? Does it make sense to use a high-viz or some other front site?

rbernie, I know exactly what you mean about pointing vs aiming and I appreciate your input. I should have prefaced by saying I currently have 3 shotguns and I shoot clays regularly. My confusion lies with shooting slugs in self defense. If shooting 00 buck, I understand that you point the gun, but if you are shooting slugs, do you not aim?

Thanks all for the input so far. Keep it coming!
 
Porting, ESPECIALLY on the choke tube does nothing to reduce recoil. Choke tubes in and of themselves are a different matter

Check with someone like this for a light clamp:
http://www.candewman.com/

At HD distances, you won't be worrying about aiming anything; you'll be reacting to a threat and pointing is faster - let your instincts take over
 
what about a forend that only has a small rail? I know Surefire makes a forend with light but I can get a Streamlight and forend w/rail for half the price.
Click to expand...
A small rail or clamp is useful to mought a light, but bear in mind that the integral unit will never have the mount come loose. I suggest looking at how the lights function (how is it toggled between settings, and so forth) and choosing that first, and then backing into the mounting. It may just be that the integral unit has the most obvious and intuitive controls and settings. It may not. That would be the thing to figure out.

I thought it was a ported choke. I have heard that a choke can be a good idea and porting will help with recoil. Is this not so?
Click to expand...
Porting makes things LOUD. Choke is used to constrict the shot pattern, and for slugs or HD buckshot use is not really needed. I get sub-12" patterns at 25 yards with Federal low-recoil buck in all of my cylinder bore barrels.

How is a bead site in low light? Does it make sense to use a high-viz or some other front site?
Click to expand...
A gold/brass bead will show up in low light like no other, and is far less frangible than a plastic fiber optic tube.

If shooting 00 buck, I understand that you point the gun, but if you are shooting slugs, do you not aim?
Click to expand...
I can also shoot slugs offhand into sub-3" patterns at 25 yards, using a single front bead (and I'm sure that others can do far better than I). Put that bead into the center of the receiver top repeatedly (just like you would for clays) and it's more than accurate enough for HD engagement distances.
 
Having spent some time behind the wheel of a bare bones Maverick 88 and a tricked out 590, I'd say that my ideal HD gun would fall somewhere between the two.

M500, blued, 18.5" w/ standard bead (Speedfeed stock optional)
Surefire forend
Federal reduced recoil 00 buck (unless something else patterned significantly better)

Add a quality handgun for backup, and practice, practice, practice.

R
 
You should be as accurate as you need to be with slugs out to 50 yards with a bead sight. Beyond that, you'd probably want to pull out the AR anyway.

As rbernie noted a polished gold or brass bead is surprisingly effective in low-light situations - in fact, gold bead inlays for handgun sights are popular for the same reason. You can also install a tritium sight: Meprolight makes a replacement bead for $25 or so, and XS makes a Big Dot (more visible in daytime than the Meprolight) that epoxies over your existing bead for $65ish.

Still think the mag-cap rail I linked to above is your best bet at a solid, unobtrusive light mount. The Surefire forends with integrated light, besides being crazy expensive, have a reputation for smacking back into your hand under recoil. If possible, borrow someone's Surefire-equipped shotgun and try it out to see whether or not you like it. Different strokes and all that...
 
I can confirm that the Surefire forend will bite you if you're not careful, but with the proper grip, you can avoid it. Even so, getting the occasional smack on the hand does not interfere with the running of the gun, and I haven't seen a more elegant solution.

They are pretty expensive though. If you put a Surefire forend on a bare bones Mossberg 500, you've basically doubled the cost of the gun.

R
 
Here's my 590A1 with the breaching tool on the end. Knock on the door, jam the breaching tool through the mail slot, wait for the "Ouch!".

0cc2ad6d-e6b2-4fa7-85fd-8e669f7bc0d6.jpg

The 870s can be picky about their ammo; sometimes jamming the action closed.
 
take a look at the houge overmold 870 stock and surefire fore end i love how the houge 870 stock is it seems to grip better for me espc in the rain
 
I like Remington style rifle sights, I find they can be nearly as fast as a bead if you know what you're doing up close with buckshot, while being a lot easier to use at a distance with slugs.

Still, the bead remains my overall favorite shotgun sighting system and if you think you're going to be a lot of shooting at a distance with slugs, you're probably better off with a rifle.
 
Another vote for untactical shotguns.

Try it for a couple years and put a few hundred rounds at least through it and THEN decide what to change.

The old motto BA/UU/R.

In other words your money is better spent elsewhere, like ammo & practice.
 
You get whatever works for you. I got the sidesaddle and the rail for the streamlight TLR 1S and that was about it and quite happy. Just ignore the postings that are off topic, the tactical doohickie haters always have to push their ways on the tactical doohickie lovers.
 
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