Building an AR-15

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Wildyams

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I'm really looking into building an AR, I found a good deal on a stripped lower and I was looking at the Del-Ton 16" M-4 Rifle Kit which has a lower parts kit and an assembled upper.

A few questions-

What tools will I need to assemble the lower? I really don't have many tools in general let alone gunsmithing tools.

Any word on Del-Ton? I've read some of the reviews and they all seemed really positive.

Del-Ton lets you pick upgrades, which they install on the upper and here were the ones I was thinking about-

- Chrome lined barrel ($45) Should I get the 1x7 or 1x9 twist? most my shooting will be within 100 yards with plinking ammo, though I may reload some if I get a turret Press.

- Detachable Carry handle ($75) Some day I would like to put optics on this, thats why I'm getting the flat top.

- Flat Top Upper with M4 Feed Ramps ($25)

This brings it up to $630 + the stripped lower.

Any recommendations for other upgrades from Del-Ton? I'd like to keep the price low but am open to any suggestions.

http://www.del-ton.com/Rifle_Kit_p/rkt100.htm

Thanks,
Scott
 
The last 4 AR's I have built are Del Ton kits, and only one is an A2. Everything else is flat top for optice (old eyes). Del Ton is tops, and about the only place I plan to use in the future.

I have found that a good sturdy vice with rubber inserts to be the greatest help for me. Kinda like a 3rd hand. Generally, the only "special" tools I have are the delta wrench and a carbine butt stock nut spanner. Everything else is basic punches, hammers, huge scredriver dremmel tool, 5 pound hammer, etc. But, that is only me when it comes to tools.
 
I built my lower with just a small hammer, flat screwdriver, and a pair of pliers. I don't really recommend this as I dinged up the receiver a bit, but it functions fine and I'm not a stickler for looks. I do need to buy a castle nut wrench to tighten my 6-pos. stock correctly though. I also used the instructions on AR15.com.
 
1:9. It would allow allot more versatility in bullet choices.
Click to expand...

I think you got it backwards. 1:7 which is obviously faster will stabilize everything from the light 45gr varmint bullets and up to or little larger than 80gr bullets. I do think that a 1:6.5 may be needed for the 90's though..
 
i prefer the 1:7 twist because it allows you to shoot the heavy bullets and will also shoot 55gr just fine (not sure about 45gr) definitely spend that extra $45 and get the chrome lined barrel. when i built my first lower i watched a video on youtube and just did what he did using the same tools as he did lol try it it worked out fine for me!
 
I built a Del-Ton and it is a very good rifle. For the purpose you describe the 1x9 will work just fine. The only tool you'll need is a wrench to put the castle nut on the buffer tube. This assumes you're buying a complete upper assembly from Del-Ton. A chrome lined from Del-Ton will mean a wait, I initially ordered one but changed to moly because it was taking too long.

I would say ditch the chrome lined barrel and the carry handle. Spend the carry handle money on a flip up rear sight. Get the YHM hand guards with your upper.

Edited to add a picture of my build.

p677061361-5.png
 
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Unless you are building an upper, the only "special" tools needed are the wrench for the M4 buttstock nut and a set of roll pin punches. Neither are absolutely essential, but really help in avoiding boogering up the finish.

--wally.
 
XC -Yes, it does....I just prefer the flip sight, primarily because mine has an eotech on it, which I assume is why he's getting a flat top upper.
 
1 in 7 is too fast a twist for the platform Sure it enables you to stabilize bullets 75 grains and heavier which the 1/9 twist will not, but velocities of these rounds are ABYSMAL out of a carbine length barrel. These heavy rounds are an extreme effort to stretch the abilities of the platform, and are not beneficial in any way to the sporting shooter. Among other disadvantages are increased pressure, and decreased barrel life. With a 1/7 twist you are sacrificing accuracy with 90% of available 5.56 ammo in order to have the ability to shoot extremely long bullets. How much does accuracy suffer and how much do you care? I believe that with 52 grain ammo the least you would hope to lose is 1/2 moa and it would be worse than that for most samples. 1/7 twist is actually keeping me from buying a 6920. High quality 1/9 twist uppers are available from Smith and Wesson and Stag. Keep in mind the first M16's had a 1/12 twist which is the bees knees up through 55 grain. 1/9 is fast enough for crying out loud. 1/6.5 is really ludicrous for anyone not engaged in long range competition or clearing buildings of two legged critters.
 
I'm also considering del-ton.
I really wanted the A2 rifle platform, but deep in my heart I know that the 16" barrel would be better for home defense.
I really don't have the money for a rear sight, or the detachable carry handle, so I'm really stuck wondering if I should shell out the extra cash for m4 feedramps, which means I have to buy a rear sight.
Has anyone seen a documented jam of a 16" carbine without m4 feedramps?
I'm planning on using 40-55 gr ammo, for target practice and home defense. I hear its only a problem if you're going full auto, and Pmags cover up the feedramps anyway. I'd love to hear from anyone on the issue, especially if you have the A2 configuration upper in 16".


This will be my first AR, by the way, and I love the idea of DIY kits! :)
 
In my opinion Dr. Z, if you're solely into tac-ti-cool and Mil-Spec then you'll want M4 feed ramps. From my reading it really only has an impact if you're shooting 3 shot bursts or full auto. Neither of which I assume you will be doing. I suspect you won't notice the difference with or without them.

msshootnit, your is one of the more reasonable assertions of the twist rate I've read in a long time. You know that you'd be drawn and quartered over on the black rifle forum for making that statement! Even though you're 100% on the mark.

Edited to add....the AR shooters trying to throw those big pills down range should just buy a Garrand!
 
Edited to add....the AR shooters trying to throw those big pills down range should just buy a Garrand!
Click to expand...

Who says they don't own a M1 Garand. I use a Garand for JCG matches. Because of that I can't modify the Garand to get it as accurate as a AR, not to mention even if I wanted to that would cost a couple of "grands". The AR platform is much cheaper to buy a sub moa rifle not to mention shoot in higher volume, brass is plentiful and cheap, match .224 bullets are cheaper than match .308, and it uses less than half the powder per round.
 
mssshootnit's assertions are far from reasonable or even realistic. 1/12 did not stabilize the 55 grain bullet well. In fact that was the whole point. A short bullet out of a 1/12 would tumble if hit by a light breeze. Keyholing was an issue to say the least.

1/9 is impractical for the longer/heavier bullets common for long range or self defense shooting. It understabalizes the round which can cause accuracy problems.

1/7 on the other hand gives you the largest range of available ammo. The only thing it isn't useful with are very light Varmint grenades, which should not be shot out of a carbine AR anyway. Those belong in a longer range weapon. Any round 50 Grains and up should be just fine. I have seen 45s used reliably but don't see a reason for them. Anything less than that will be overstabalized. This won't affect accuracy like some claim but it will spin the rounds apart.

Finally there is no real difference in barrel life between the 1/7 and the 1/9. Chrome lining is what will show the real difference there.

M4 Feedramps have shown to have a very big impact ont he reliability of the AR platform, once again especially with heavier bullets.
Look at a AR with standard feedramps that has been ran hard. You will see marks right about here the BE meets the receiver. These are caused by the bullets impacting a bit lower and this can lead to issues.
 
"...like to keep the price low..." Buy one.
"...let alone gunsmithing tools..." Not many special tools required. Headspace guages are about as special as it gets.
 
I just ordered one and their customer service and quick responses were top notch! I also ordered the 16" kit just know that the buffer tube and buttstock are commercial diameter if you plan on changing out the buttstock. A simple email and Joel at Delton changed it no problem lickity split. We'll see how she looks and shoots when she gets here.
 
Azizza said:
mssshootnit's assertions are far from reasonable or even realistic. 1/12 did not stabilize the 55 grain bullet well. In fact that was the whole point. A short bullet out of a 1/12 would tumble if hit by a light breeze. Keyholing was an issue to say the least.

1/9 is impractical for the longer/heavier bullets common for long range or self defense shooting. It understabalizes the round which can cause accuracy problems.

1/7 on the other hand gives you the largest range of available ammo. The only thing it isn't useful with are very light Varmint grenades, which should not be shot out of a carbine AR anyway. Those belong in a longer range weapon. Any round 50 Grains and up should be just fine. I have seen 45s used reliably but don't see a reason for them. Anything less than that will be overstabalized. This won't affect accuracy like some claim but it will spin the rounds apart.

Finally there is no real difference in barrel life between the 1/7 and the 1/9. Chrome lining is what will show the real difference there.

M4 Feedramps have shown to have a very big impact ont he reliability of the AR platform, once again especially with heavier bullets.
Look at a AR with standard feedramps that has been ran hard. You will see marks right about here the BE meets the receiver. These are caused by the bullets impacting a bit lower and this can lead to issues.
Click to expand...
I wondered how long it would be before a BRF member showed up.
 
AR-15 build....it may help, it may not. When I went through my last build, I borrowed my teams tool and went at it. I found it was a poor over all design as a multi tool...especially when it cam to the castle nut. I figured I could do better myself and came up with the HammerHead Rifle Tool.....No gimmicks, it just works.

Castle Nut, flash hider, torque wrench hole, pivot pin punch.
100% American Made materials and workmanship. Steel or Titanium...
Lifetime warranty.

Enough of the pitch...I was in the same boat that so many others are, so I did something about it. Started off I was going to be passing it around to other LE folk....which I do. Others seemed to really be excited about the hammerHead Rifle Tool.

Check it out, see what you think. It is a solution! Not a gimmick.

A number of the forum members here will be doing a free product test and review for THR.Org in the next couple weeks. Bob

www.hammerheadrifletool.com
 
I doubt you'll notice much accuracy difference between 55gr in a 1:9 chrome-lined Delton barrel and 55gr in a 1:7 chrome-lined Delton barrel. The difference is that the 1:7 can use heavier ammo and the 1:9 may or may not be able to use heavier ammo; but will have marginal stability even if it can use that ammo.

mshootnit said:
1 in 7 is too fast a twist for the platform Sure it enables you to stabilize bullets 75 grains and heavier which the 1/9 twist will not, but velocities of these rounds are ABYSMAL out of a carbine length barrel.
Click to expand...

Black Hills 75gr Blue Box runs about 2,550 fps out of my 16" carbine. I can also use longer rounds like the new 70gr TSX for hunting with the faster twist.

These heavy rounds are an extreme effort to stretch the abilities of the platform, and are not beneficial in any way to the sporting shooter.
Click to expand...

I guess that depends on how you define "sporting shooter";but even then not all shooting is for sport. However, even in sport shooting, the heavier rounds are nice because they have more predictable behavior in wind past 300yds and are better suited for hunting of 100-200lb mammals.

Among other disadvantages are increased pressure, and decreased barrel life.
Click to expand...

Haven't noticed either of those yet; but I think that presumes you woud be feeding the barrel a steady diet of 75gr and up match ammo. In reality, most people simply want to use this type of ammo every once in awhile. Besides, if you have the budget to wear out a barrel with 75gr match ammo, then buying a new barrel is the least of your financial problems.

With a 1/7 twist you are sacrificing accuracy with 90% of available 5.56 ammo in order to have the ability to shoot extremely long bullets. How much does accuracy suffer and how much do you care? I believe that with 52 grain ammo the least you would hope to lose is 1/2 moa and it would be worse than that for most samples.
Click to expand...

How much does accuracy suffer?. That link shows a 0.76" 10-shot group of 55gr BlitzKings fired through a Noveske 1:7 twist barrel. Even if we assume that you are correct and the shooter lost 1/2 moa (making that a one hole 10-shot group with a 1:9 barrel), then we still have some other problems.

So assuming our shooter here is capable of making a one-hole 10-rd group at 100yds (in which case, he probably doesn't need my advice) AND assuming you are correct about losing 0.5 MOA, then we still have the problem that the 1:9 barrel can be 4-5 MOA with the longer 75gr+ ammo. So, shoot 10rds of 55gr match ammo into 0.76" AND be able to shoot similar groups with the heavier ammo - or shoot 10rds of 55gr match ammo into 0.223" and shoot 75gr+ into 4-5"?

HKguns said:
In my opinion Dr. Z, if you're solely into tac-ti-cool and Mil-Spec then you'll want M4 feed ramps. From my reading it really only has an impact if you're shooting 3 shot bursts or full auto.
Click to expand...

Or if you are using longer OAL rounds (heavy 75gr+ ammo again) or softpoint hunting rounds without a cannelure on the bullet. These also benefit from M4 feed ramps for obvious reasons. Another plus is that if you use mags until they fail, you'll see marginally longer lifespan with M4 feedramps because the weaker springs will continue to feed with M4 ramps when they will cause a stoppage with the standard ramps. However, given the cost of magazines these days and the normal useful life of one, you are probably better off just buying a new mag.
 
I went with Del-Ton and put together a custom carbine. I went with the chrome lined barrel, YHM light weight hand guard, flat top with carry handle, and a standard flash suppressor. The wait wasnt bad, I ordered it on January 19th and received it in the first week of February and that was including a wait on the hand guards.

I will order from them again

DSC01056-1.jpg
 
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