Bulge in 9mm cases that resizing doesn't fix

[WayneConrad]

I've got fired 9mm cases with a bulge that the resizing die doesn't touch. Sometimes the act of seating a bullet expands the bulge enough that the cartridge no longer meets spec and must be rejected.

After resizing, I run all the cases through a Midway max cartridge gauge looking for cases that need to be trimmed. I rarely find those. What I do find are cases that are too fat to fit in the gauge, even after resizing.

Here is a resized case with the bulge:

On thise case, the base is 0.387 (spec says 0.390), the bulge is 0.390 (spec says 0.387), and the mouth is 0.374 (spec says 0.380). The bulge is 0.167 from the base.

Here's the resizing die:

What's really annoying is that there are some cases where the bulge is just skinny enough to make it through the cartridge gauge, but seating a bullet causes the bulge to increase in diameter just enough so that the cartridge no longer fits in the gauge and has to be rejected. This happens to about 8% of the cartridges I load.

What should I be doing differently?

 

[armoredman]

Hmmm. get a new resizing die? Ditch all bulged cases? Life is too short to shoot bad brass...I throw out close to 20% of cases everytime I deprime/resize...

 

[Ktulu]

That's weird. All my 9s look like coke bottles. They're bulged on the bottom where the resizing die doesn't reach, narrow in the middle where they got resized, and bulged a little at the top where the bullet is seated. However, they all fit in a cartridge gauge and they all shoot fine.

Maybe try a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

 

[Coltdriver]

Maybe there is too much friction in your sizing die. I found that if I put too aggressive of a crimp in my .357 brass that it would cause these bulges, some bad enough to cause the brass to either not fit in the cylinder or to stick a bit after firing.

 

[HSMITH]

For some reason you are not getting all the way down the case with the die. Are you running the ram all the way up, then turning in the die until it makes firm contact with the shellholder/shellplate? If you aren't doing this adjust your size die this way and try it. If you are adjusting that way you can just grind about .080-.100" off the bottom of the die so it can be adjusted farther down. I've had to do this to a couple RCBS carbide dies, after that they work great.

 

[brickeyee]

Allowing the carbide to press on the shell holder can crack it. Keep it a few thou off the shell holder.

 

[trickyasafox]

brickeyee-
are the carbides that much weaker? i dont load for pistol yet (only load 223 actually, adn thats still a work in progress) but was very interested in eventually gettin some lee carbides for pistols. . .are there any other precautions that go with these dies that the regular ones dont have?

 

[TooTaxed]

Get a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die! These are used to install a taper-crimp in the final reloading step, and a carbide ring resizes the completed cartridge to factory spec.

I just had a real problem with reloading 9-mm with a new RCBS 3-die set, and the Lee die saved the day. I'll post a new thread on my experience, as soon as I research the RCBS set to see what caused the problem (I suspect an oversize expanding plug).

 

[model 649]

Trick,
the carbides aren't weaker, they are very brittle(the insert, that is). Hitting the carbide insert with the press ram can crack it.
Josh

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Lee makes an undersized die that will get more of that buldge out but you have to call the factory to order one.

Personally I would forward your pictures to RCBS tech line (find it on the web page) and ask for a reply. My bet is they will send you a new die.

 

[Nortonics]

TooTaxed wrote: Get a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die! These are used to install a taper-crimp in the final reloading step, and a carbide ring resizes the completed cartridge to factory spec.

Ding, ding, ding, ding!! - you win the grand prize for the right answer!

 

[Black Snowman]

Shouldn't need the FCD. The RCBS die should size down that low. If it's not getting out the buldge, either the brass is defective or the die is defective, or the sizing die isn't set correctly or a combination of the three. The Lee FCD will just mask one of those previous problems but will not make the ammo "good" it will just make out of spec ammo look spec and fit.

Case tension won't be as good if you resort to the FCD. The bullet can deform as well with the FCD. Both of these can result in less accurate ammo, or problems with bullet pull or setback. I've had all of these issues using a FCD at one time or another. Don't use the FCD as a band-aid fix. Find out what the real problem is and fix that. The FCD is a great tool, but don't let it replace making good ammo. Use it for making better ammo.

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Bulged 9mm cases

As a reloader for my police department and many competitor friends I would not load 9mm as my progressive Stars needed a wide bevel feed in to the sizing die for speed of loading and to not catch a case mouth lip and crush the case. Instead I bought my 9mm from Gromak Industries a california commercial Police reloader who had a system where the loaded rounds came along a conveyor and through a series of rollers pictured as rotating wheels or disks with the cases going past pairs of them that rolled the bulge out of the ammo that were loaded in autoload 5,000 round per hour loaders.

Without the rollers the bulge in the cases would keep the rounds from feeding.

As Ron Gromak upgraded his equipment I bought his 3 ton lead smelter when he built a 35 ton smelter. I used bulletmaster machines to cast my bullets and he swaged all of his bullets in a press I forget the tonnage of but it was impressive. He was a very competent man.

 

[testar77]

Ding,ding,ding,ding

Snowman is the winner with the CORRECT answer don't try to hide the problem, fix the problem. The problem is in the 1st step not the last step.

Good luck and happy shooting!

 

[HKGuns]

I'm curious what kind of pistol were those shot out of last?

 

[WayneConrad]

shoudek,

Some of the brass is range pickups, which will be a mix of brass from my Walther P99 and whatever other brass was nearby.

Some of the brass is "once-fired" from HQ Brass.

I've had the bulge problem with both sources of brass, although with the range pickups I have 8-12% rejects and with the HQ Brass I have 4-6% rejects.

So the short answer is, "no way to tell."

 

[Bronson7]

Shouldn't need the FCD. The RCBS die should size down that low. If it's not getting out the buldge, either the brass is defective or the die is defective, or the sizing die isn't set correctly or a combination of the three. The Lee FCD will just mask one of those previous problems but will not make the ammo "good" it will just make out of spec ammo look spec and fit.

Case tension won't be as good if you resort to the FCD. The bullet can deform as well with the FCD. Both of these can result in less accurate ammo, or problems with bullet pull or setback. I've had all of these issues using a FCD at one time or another. Don't use the FCD as a band-aid fix. Find out what the real problem is and fix that. The FCD is a great tool, but don't let it replace making good ammo. Use it for making better ammo.

BlackSnowman is a man that knows what he's talking about!
Bronson7

 

[WayneConrad]

Thanks for all of your replies so far! I'm going to call RCBS today and see what they have to say. Good idea.

Hopefully they don't want to send me $400 worth of free stuff. It's mildly embarassing when they do that.

 

[MaterDei]

Shouldn't need the FCD. The RCBS die should size down that low. If it's not getting out the buldge, either the brass is defective or the die is defective, or the sizing die isn't set correctly or a combination of the three. The Lee FCD will just mask one of those previous problems but will not make the ammo "good" it will just make out of spec ammo look spec and fit.

+2

fwiw I'll be interested to see the outcome. I'm having the exact same problem with the RCBS 9mm dies on my Ammomaster Progressive.

I don't own a 9mm so fixing it has been low on my priority list.

 

[WayneConrad]

I just got off the phone with one of the nice people at RCBS.

She said that the resizing die just can't touch the bulge that near the base, but since I am using the inspection gauge after resizing and tossing the out-of-spec cases, it should be alright.

It turns out that I have the wrong crimp die (I thought I bought a taper crimp set, honest!). There's no TC stamped in the top, so it's a roll-crimp die. She felt I should try with the taper crimp die and make sure not to overcrimp. She did not think that the crimping die would expand the bulge near the base, but instead would cause a bulge near the base of the bullet; that bulge, not the bulge near the base, is where my rejects are coming from.

I will smoke a reject cartridge and see if I can tell where it's interfering with the inspection gauge. I'll also order a taper crimp die.

I'm a bit embarassed that I had the wrong crimping die and didn't even know it.

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

Well, the question is "Is the bulge there prior to crimping"? If it's there prior to crimping or even inserting a bullet, then the problem is still in the resizing stage. If it appears after the bullet seat/crimp then I'd agree with the RCBS tech. So there might be some information missing from this thread. Even if you thought you were using a taper crimp die, if the roll crimp die is adjusted properly, then that stage should not be creating the bulge.

So, where is the bulge showing itself?

-Steve

 

[Mal H]

Wayne - I'm afraid I have to disagree with the RCBS rep. The bulge in your cases isn't "that near the base". Every full length die I have will resize to within a few millimeters of the extraction groove - well below where the bulge is showing. I do agree that you need the taper crimp die, but the term 'FL' showing on your current die means full length and it should be getting that bulge out. I'm puzzled; sure would like to eyeball your setup and operation.

 

[WayneConrad]

Jack,

I loaded another 50 last night, paying closer attention to what's happening during belling and seating. I now think it's not the bulge near the base of the case that's failing my cartridges, but instead a bulge at the base of the bullet (is it too late to change the thread title to "Bulge in 9mm cases that resizing doesn't fix, but that's not the problem"?)

As soon as I can figure out how to smoke one of the failed cartridges so I can see where it's interfering with the inspection gauge, I'll have more data for you. I gotta figure out what to burn that makes nice, black soot. Some days it sucks being a non-smoker. Not a match in the house, and only a stove burner to start things burning.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Birthday Candle or any other candle. Put the case near the wick deep into the flame.

 

[Mal H]

Doesn't have to be smoke - I usually use a black Magic Marker.