"Bulk" .22LR ammo

[Random 8]

Bulk .22s seemed to go downhill in the last ammo "shortage". Seemed like they just let the quality slide in favor of producing mass quantities for eager buyers at inflated prices. I used to devour Reminton T-bolts and Federal 38plated HP by the bucketful. I used the Feds mostly in semi-auto pistols, the T-bolts in a couple of bolt action rifles. The T-bolt in particular matched the accuracy of ANYTHING I tried including some premium loadings. Then this went downhill. The last 2 boxes of T-bolt I bought, while having no FTFs does have about every 7th shot go off noticeably weaker, some even subsonic. Been trying to burn the rest up dinging cans in the backyard as it's not consistent enough for my silhouette course or backyard pests. Have not had any similar issues with boxed ammo. The Fed Auto match has been very good for me, almost as good as Win T-22 in my bolt actions, and reliable in my Semi-auto pistols, but not as accurate in these.

 

[Texas10mm]

When the manufacturers ramped up production new people had to be trained to prime the cases. Except for Eley tech this is all done by hand. New people starting out work on the "bulk" ammo lines. More experienced people work on the "box" line.

 

[cougar1717]

How do the manufacturers who sell the same ammo both ways know which rounds are "good" and which are "bulk-worthy"? I know there are higher-end products that happen to be sold in small boxes, but if they put the same ammo in a 500-round package would it automatically turn it into crap?

I feel that this is an argument over words and definitions. What constitutes "bulk ammo?" John, you are right that the same ammo has no change in performance if only the packaging changes, whether that is in a tray of 50 versus a loose box of 500. For example, Remington GB's are packaged in many various ways - trays of 100, boxes of 550, buckets of 1400. In this instance, most shooters would consider all these "bulk ammo" even though there are trays of 100.

Conversely, there are some 22LR ammos that most shooters would consider "bulk" that are packaged only in 10 trays of 50, making a brick of 500.

But I have one box of CCI "AR Tactical" bulk .22 and one of the "Choot 'em" (whatever the heck that is). I haven't opened them yet, but I have to wonder how they differ from the small plastic 100-round boxes, other than the projectile.

When you open them, you will see that there are three trays of 100 rounds each in the cardboard box. These products are different in the big box vs small box debate. The CCI AR Tactical does not come any other way - there are no small containers of it. The CCI mini mag does come in boxes of 100. The Choot'em pack is just buying three 100 round trays. In this case, the mini-mags are the same, regardless of 100 round or 300 round containers.

Can someone offer proof?

Let's go back to general terminology first. Bulk is the lowest grade, Target is next, Match is next, then Competition ammos at the top. What a person is really purchasing is consistency.

Remember:
1) Just because ammo is more expensive, does not mean it shoots better in your rifle.
2) Rimfire is "consistently inconsistent". As you climb the terminology ladder from bulk to target etc, manufacturer's grade their ammo. Lot number can make a big difference as to how consistent a certain ammo is - not so much with bulk, but with higher grades.

Bulk ammo is relatively inconsistent. It usually has a wide velocity variation extreme spread (ES) of approximately 100fps (or more) and standard deviations (SD) of 25fps+ or so.
I'm not going to type out all my data here, but in my chrono testing, these would include ammos like:

CCI Tactical, CCI Minimag, Winchester Xpert, Remington GB, Federal: Value Pack, Automatch, 510, etc.

Target ammo costs more but has better consistency. Typically ES 60-80fps, SD mid to upper teens. These would be products like:
Federal Target 711B, Norma Tac22, SK Standard+. There is wide variation here because some lots grade better than others, which is why some brag groups come from these ammos.

Match ammos cost even more, but have even better stats.

The competition ammos are very expensive and very consistent. These are the R-50, Lapua X-act (and similar Midas), and Eley Tenex. A 40fps ES would be a disappointment. More like 25fps. These **should** exhibit single digit SD's.

All that to say, there is wide variation in the type and quality of 22LR ammos.

 

[crestoncowboy]

That's true. Back 15 or so years ago I spent nearly 200 dollars on a box of every 22 ammo the local store had, plus i had quite a variety at home already. I tried some in a few rifles and a scoped target ruger pistol. I was surprised by some and not impressed with others. The results varied widely by the gun, but overall I never saw a 5 dollar+ a box ammo shoot terrible in any 1 gun. Nor did I see a cheap ammo shoot great in every gun.The pistol didn't like the most brands, but with certain kinds it rivaled the rifles. (One brand I can't remember was match pistol, it shot terrible in the pistol but was very good in a 77/22 ironically) The only takeaway i got from it was that 22 is my plinking caliber, I'll use something more consistent for serious use. And that if one brand doesn't shoot well in your gun another brand likely will.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Shoot thunderbolts or golden bullets. Then shoot decent ammo. There will be many more failures to fire. We used to shoot a brick every Sunday growing up. Remington, federal, winchester, whatever we seen first at the local hardware store or Rose's/ k-mart we would have 20 or more per brick that wouldn't go off, I still have about the same sometimes, although some do better, No matter how many times we tried to turn them and keep trying. And a lot that didn't go off first try but did the next. I can't recall ever having a wildcat or higher (50 cent per 50. Lol) round fail while hunting in the same old rifles

I don't know of any ammo that is sold in 50 and in bulk either. They usually have entirely different bullet design so it's not even arguable. Unless you are referring to a brick as 10 boxes of 50 in a larger box. In which case there is no difference. But a brick is usually referred to as federal champion, Remington thunder bolts, or golden bullets, or winchester white box and are bulk packed loose in a box or bucket

Huh? I have never had a .22LR bullet fail to fire once it was chambered. Sure I often have FTLs and FTEs but never an FTF.

 

[crestoncowboy]

You have never had a poorly primed round?
.... I have ziplock bag with probably 3 or 400. All have multiple firing pin indentations from many guns. I've had bricks that didn't have any and about 5or so years ago I bought a case (5k+ rounds I don't remember if golden bullets are 525 or 550 right off) that had 10 or more per brick. I have a single six that whacks the hell out of the rim, way too hard actually, i try that gun last and if still no fire it goes in the bag. Not to mention the ones I've chunked growing up. Like I said though, I grew up shooting a 500 rd box every Sunday but I haven't met anyone who shoots many bulk packs without seeing duds.
The most aggravating ftf was always when my lever action would bend the nose of the bullet up. Those could be a real pain to get out of my brownings or the ithaca. Especially when we (like the dumb kids we were) tried to make them go on in by working the lever. Lol

 

[RA40]

This is an example of what I encountered in loose bulk of Browning. Take note at the lower center where the bullet has sheared off.

 

[Bruce D Pease]

I personally have had good luck with the bucket of Remington golden bullets. I have an unopened bucket in The safe now, as well as one with about 200 .rds left. It’s the preferred food for my wife’s Walter p22, & it s o e of many more Ruger sr22 will eat with no problems. I’ve also had good luck with Fiocchi in bulk packs.

 

[sota]

@Bruce D Pease that's funny because my SR22 with circa 2009 remington GB from the bucket packs was an absolute HORRID combination. 100s (no joke) of failure to fire, and every round tossed crap back at me from the gun. accuracy was "meh" at best and it dirtied up the gun like I was rolling it in powder.

 

[kenboyles72]

Out of the bulk ammo I purchase, the Thundebolts seem to have better consistency and less failures. I just bought a 500ct box of the Golden bullets, so far there has only been one out of 150 that didn't go boom and fairly tight groups. This box of Golden bullets actually surprised me at how well they shot, but of course this is box by box and may not be the same with the next. The Federal Champions have been pretty good as well, no failures, but shoots very loose groups.

I often read that "bulk" .22LR ammo is not as good as that packaged in smaller quantities.

Can someone offer proof?

How do the manufacturers who sell the same ammo both ways know which rounds are "good" and which are "bulk-worthy"? I know there are higher-end products that happen to be sold in small boxes, but if they put the same ammo in a 500-round package would it automatically turn it into crap?

Incidentally, I watched a video of an ammo test where someone put a boatload of ammo in a container, shook it around a lot to simulate being bulk-packaged, and then tested it against 50-round packaged ammo to see if the bulk packaging of loose rounds affected reliability. Zero difference.

Just because you throw a bunch of higher quality ammo in a tub and shake it around does not make it "bulk" ammo and loose it's reliability. It was better ammo to begin with and that's not gonna change it. Bulk ammo is produced with lower standards, no matter if it's packed loose or in smaller boxes.

 

[chicharrones]

Huh? I have ever had a .22LR bullet fail to fire once it was chambered. Sure I often have FTLs and FTEs but never an FTF.

I've had dozens and dozens of .22 LR that wouldn't light off with a firing pin strike, all with different guns. Almost all of my experience with that is with the "bulk" ammo I bought in the 90s and early 2000s. Back then that ammo came in little boxes of 50 without any ammo divider within the box, that I mentioned earlier.

Since I was so cheap on my ammo selection back then, that was one reason I got rid of my Ruger 10/22 autoloader and replaced it with my Marlin 39 lever gun. At least I could cycle out the duds more efficiently with a manually operated gun. Ye Olde Remington Thunderbolt comes to mind as the worst offender back then.

Even recently, I've had quite a few duds out of a "bulk" box of Fiocchi .22LR ammo packed in the traditional 10 little boxes into one larger box. I've experienced duds out of that box of Fiocchi in my H&R 999, Beretta Neos, and Browning Buckmark. Due to that, I haven't even bothered shooting that Fiocchi in my rifles yet. No matter that all my .22 LR rifles are manually operated.

 

[chicharrones]

This is an example of what I encountered in loose bulk of Browning. Take note at the lower center where the bullet has sheared off.
View attachment 818223

A wadcutter round! Excellent.

 

[Texas10mm]

The ground at my range is littered with .22 LR ammo with one strike. Most people just dump it.

 

[crestoncowboy]

I'm hardheaded, I'd never stop after one try. And I don't run "drills " with 22lr. If my gun allows, I'll double strike first. Then if the gun allows it easily (most do, some lever actions don't) I'll turn it 90 degrees to hit a new spot. Then I'll try another gun if i have 2 22s that day. Then if that doesn't work I'll get the single six that someone bubbad the spring and it hits too hard. Most are pretty beat up before I give up. Between me and my 2 childhood shooting buddies we have well over 100 22 rifles. Many are old single shots that have been "repaired" with wire and barn nail firing pins. But there are T- bolts, 39s, winchesters, 62s, Springfield single shots Remington nylons, a ton of marlin/ westerfield/ Glenfield 60s and ive seen failure to fire, eject, feed in every one. Growing up we worked in tobacco, pine trees, beans, hay, dug ginseng, blood root, poplar bark and they both trapped (mostly muskrat but other critters too) and sold squirrel tails. It sounds like the "old days" but this was in the late 80s and 90s. Lol. My area is 20 years behind the rest of the world I hear. Actually other than tobacco, squirrel tails, and beans, we'r still doing all those things. We grabbed any gun in our 25-75 budget. can't recall ever having a no bang in mini-mag, stinger, or any decent "target" ammo. From old wildcat down through all the bulk ammo ive had many. That's all the evidence i need that bulk ammo is lower quality, But considering I was buying it for 5 or so dollars a brick I could afford it as a kid . I'm a better shooter now because of that crap ammo. I'll accept the problems. I just ordered 5k cci standard for 179. Yesterday actually.

 

[George P]

I bought the Federal Black bulk 22 on sale. 1600 rounds for a final cost of $40; stuff works just fine. Came in 50 round boxes, jut a plain white box with black lettering; same Federal stuff as the American Eagle or similar - and it all went bang in the 10/22, Marlin 60, K-22, MKII and was as accurate as the CCI mini mags I love. BTW, I had also purchased a bulk tub of Remington Golden Bullets and they work just as well and are just as accurate, especially from the Marlin.

Am I getting one ragged hole at 25 or 50 yards? Nope, but if that was my goal, the rifle would be an Anschutz 54 shooting top tier Ely or similar.

 

[.38SuperMan]

Some of you guys have certainly had your problems with bulk 22’s. I’ve had pretty much the opposite experience. Since mid summer my wife and I have been shooting either Remington bulk or Federal. I don’t have any of the Remington in front of me but they’re in the green box, 500 rounds, lead non hollow point and not copper played. Me Federal are 36gr copper hollow points in the 550 round box. I buy them from the local Walmart and they’re both under $20 a box. I’ve pretty much gone to the Federal because the Remington are really dirty.

I buy 6 cartons at a time and my wife and I have shot several thousand rounds in the past couple of months. We’re shooting in a variety of pistols including a S&W 317 & Victory, Browning Challenger, Ruger Single 6, original 3 screw Bearcat, 3 Henry rifles, 10/22 and 1930’s vintage Remington bolt action.

Out of several thousand rounds we’ve had one under power round and possible 3 duds. What are we talking .001%.

They may not be Olympic target quality but they’re better than we are and function just fine in our guns. I can shoot the X out of the target at 50ft with them so they’re plenty accurate. At less than $20 for 550 id say there a pretty good deal.

 

[Dibbs]

IME, the bulk ammo shoots fine thru a rifle, but the 22LR pistols tend to make lighter strikes against the
rim of the cartridge, resulting in a high percentage of bulk ammo failure. For pistols, and hunting, I prefer the
boxes of CCI, or boxes specifically labeled "pistol ammo".

 

[bannockburn]

sota

@Bruce D Pease that's funny because my SR22 with circa 2009 remington GB from the bucket packs was an absolute HORRID combination. 100s (no joke) of failure to fire, and every round tossed crap back at me from the gun. accuracy was "meh" at best and it dirtied up the gun like I was rolling it in powder.

Sounds like my son's experience's with his Walther P22! Lots of duds with any type of Remington ammo and then the gun got so dirty it wouldn't run at all til you cleaned it; typically after 100 rounds or less. Only ammo that it seemed to like was CCI MiniMags and that gets expensive after awhile!

 

[Stevie-Ray]

We've talked about this so many times in the past. Back then, when "bulk" started showing up, meaning loose rounds thrown into a box, rather than "bricks" meaning overpacks with ten boxes of 50 inside, I had the worst luck with Federal, but it was a brown box of 550. I had zero issues with Winchester, and none with Remington. At the time, it was said by many to try the Federal blue box of 525, which were better. It then started appearing to be a regional thing, as the crap in the brown boxes (I had at least 10% squibs) were great in another area of the country, while the blue boxes, which were great here, were crap there. I don't think anybody came to a consensus back then, nor do I think they will now. As they say, ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances..................

 

[Catpop]

I used to shoot a brick a week in the 60s. My dad had access to wholesale pricing through a sawmill supply house. Every weeks supply order came with a brick!!!!! How lucky can a kid get!!!!!

A brick then was 10 boxes of 50. I only shot Remingtons from a marlin 1892 lever.

Note: I used to shoot hand thrown pine trim blocks from the planer. I wasn’t a Tom Frye but I could hit some.