Bulk .308 these days?

[Nightcrawler]

It's been awhile since I've purchased a bulk lot of .308. I spent two years away having adventures and such since my last purchase (1,400 rounds of South African) and I've still got quite a bit of that left over.

That said, the South African has dried up. As with all surplus ammo, it was going to happen sooner or later. Now, the thing is, I never liked the SA all that much. It wasn't as nice as the Portugese and required me to crank up the gas system on my FAL.

At any rate, Ammoman, where I used to get my ammo, has Lake City surplus, but it's almost gone. So what do we .308 shooters do when all of the suprlus is gone?

Georgia Arms has bulk reloaded .308 for $380 per 1,000 rounds. That's okay, and cheaper than just buying FMJ by the box at your local store, but can we do better.

Ammoman has Wolf .308 for $239 per 1,000 rounds. Has anyone tried running steel cased ammunition through a FAL? I don't think it'll affect it, but I'd like to know.

 

[kfranz]

That said, the South African has dried up

Not really, AIM still has it for a better price than anything you've got listed. Turning up the gas system isn't really a problem if you've got a can opener or a SAK...

 

[Nightcrawler]

Turning up the gas system wasn't a problem per-say, but it led me to conclude that the SA .308 was operating at lower pressures. It might be a touch underpowered. Anybody chronographed it?

Thanks for the tip on AIM, btw. Just ordered 560 more rounds, and my buddy is bringing the rest of my ammo from Michigan when he comes out to visit next month. (Twenty six bucks for shipping?? *grumble*)

In any case, the question remains. Unless South Africa is producing that .308 in bulk to sell commercially, eventually it's going to dry up. What do we do then?

 

[Ian]

Dillon 650, that's what we do.

 

[dmckean44]

Just buy more SA now while you can still get it for $25 a battlepack. Truth is .308 is a popular chambering and all the surplus will eventually dry up. I have 4000 rounds and only expect that to last me six months or so.

If you're looking for endless supplies of cheap surplus then you should buy Hakim or FN-49 and shoot 8mm. There's been an abundent supply of that since WWII ended.

 

[Father Knows Best]

I can't offer any suggestions, unfortunately. I will note that I don't recommend the Lake City bulk surplus. It's bottom-of-the-barrel stuff. I bought 500 rounds of it (headstamps are LC 02, LC 03 and LC 04), and had a lot of problems. OAL is wildly inconsistent. I understand that's in large part why it is available in the first place -- it failed the QC tests necessary for both front line and practice ammo for the US military.

I've still got a lot of Argentine and South African laid in, as well as varying amounts of Portuguese and Belgian. The Portuguese and Belgian are my favorite, so I'm hanging on to them for now. The Argentine and SA are pretty good -- definitely better than the LC. I've also never liked Wolf ammo in general for any use where accuracy matters.

That said(tm), I have had good luck with surplus boxed Lake city M118LR. It's pricey, though, so I wouldn't consider it plinking ammo.

 

[Master Blaster]

I don't think its going to dry up anytime soon,

Folks like Germany South Africa portugal etc. are still using the .308 /7.62X51. The stuff that gets surplussed, and sold by folks like AIM is about 20 years old. thats when they surplus it and sell it. The last stuff I bought 2 years ago was the Aussie and the SA, and it was 1982 1984 production. so the stuff they made in 1986 should be hitting the surplus rack soon, next year it will be the 1987 stuff.

JMHO YMMV

 

[USSR]

So what do we .308 shooters do when all of the suprlus is gone?

You guys are going to have to bite the bullet and learn how to reload. Instead of looking for ever decreasing supplies of ammo, start buying brass, primers, bullets, and powder.

Don

 

[Pappy John]

I re-load lots of calibers, but keeping a MBR fed with a Rock Chucker is a losing proposition. I'd end up with right arm muscles that would make me list to starboard.

The twenty year storage cycle sounds right, but I wonder why the last case of Aussie that I bought was from 1990. Maybe the wrong boxes got on a truck at some point. I'm still nursing that one since I can't find any more. Mostly shooting the SA battlepacks instead to make it last. I'm still seeing them available.

 

[ny32182]

To me, the problem seems to be that most of the world switched away from .308 by the mid eighties. I doubt there will ever be much surplus out there newer than '85 or so.

Wolf, Silver Bear, etc will probably be options. If there is a demand for cheap plinking ammo out there, someone will probably fill it.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Reloading

With a FAL and its twenty round magazines, I can go through two hundred rounds in a single shooting session. How long does it take to load that many by hand? Considering also the limited space I have available in my apartment. I don't think an industrial-grade relaoding setup is going to fit too terribly well.

I don't understand why even basic (UMC, etc.) .308 commerical ammo is so expensive. Why does it cost more to make a .308 round than a .357 Magnum round? They use about the same amout of lead and copper in the bullet. The .308 uses more brass, I guess, but still. I think the ammo companies realize that people just expect to pay more for rifle ammo, so they sell it for more.

Still, though. Somebody will make inexpensive bulk ammo for the semiauto shooters who go through a lot of ammunition. The .308 surplus supplies will diminish significantly, though. While most of NATO still uses 7.62x51mm machine guns, and thusly vast quantities of ammo for them, it's a lot less ammo than there'd be if they were using 7.62x51mm service rifles also (like they used to).

 

[DMK]

I don't think its going to dry up anytime soon,
Folks like Germany South Africa portugal etc. are still using the .308 /7.62X51. The stuff that gets surplussed, and sold by folks like AIM is about 20 years old. thats when they surplus it and sell it.

I hope you're right, but I'm concerned that you may not be. Some of the huge amounts of 7.62x51 that we saw in the past were from countries adopting 5.56 frontline rifles. Sure, they kept 7.62 MGs, but they also needed to make room in the ammo dumps for large stocks of 5.56, so large ammounts of 7.62 was surplused to make room for the new.

As for the rest of the ammo, I'm very concerned about the pressure the UN is putting on other countries to limit trade in anything weapon related. The ex-Warsaw countries seem to be less easily swayed, but many are also still desperate for international trade so that could be a carrot offered for compliance.

The many international and civil wars are also consuming vast quantities of ammo in all calibers.

Basically, anything could happen.

 

[1911user]

Why does it cost more to make a .308 round than a .357 Magnum round? They use about the same amout of lead and copper in the bullet. The .308 uses more brass, I guess, but still. I think the ammo companies realize that people just expect to pay more for rifle ammo, so they sell it for more.

Rifle brass costs about double that of pistol brass. My hunch is decent rifle bullets cost more to make than pistol bullets due to more steps and more precision needed. There is much more powder in rifle ammo than pistol ammo (roughly 7-10 times as much). Powder is expensive; each 308 round has roughly 10 cents worth of powder. The primer costs should be about the same at 1-1.5 cents.

For plinking 308 rifle ammo using new brass, the cost is roughly 40-45 cents a round to make it; that's 8-9 dollars a box of 20. I'm sure ammo companies don't pay quite that much for components due to massive volume and making some parts in house. That's why surplus rifle ammo is so popular.

 

[longhorngunman]

Even buying cheap graf's .308 brass and with C&R discount on cheap SP bullets and such, I can't load .308 for less than around .45cents/round. Even reusing brass that just knocks it to .25-.30cts/rd. Until surplus gets to these figures it's still cheaper to stock up on the surplus .308. 2nd the 8mm, too bad it's corrosive, if it wasn't I'd rebarrel my .308 rifles to it. .05cts/rd can't beat that!

 

[DMK]

Powder is expensive; each 308 round has roughly 10 cents worth of powder.

That sure does put the low cost of surplus into perspective. Even the surplus Aussy F4 ball I used to get for 18 cents a round seems cheap when you break down what it would cost to roll your own and the F4 even came with clips, bandoliers and an ammo can.

I shouldn't complain about commercial .303 for $9 to $10 a box.

 

[gezzer]

South African .308 --- 1260 Rounds

This South African Surplus .308 is some of the best surplus ammo available! 147gn, Lead core, Copper Jacketed, FMJ Bullet. Brass Case, Non-Corrosive, Berdan Primer. Each Battlepack contains 140 rounds of ammo; 9 - 140 Round Battle Packs per Case






9 - 140 Round Battle Packs per Case

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Please check your state laws before ordering to make sure it is legal to have them shipped to your state.

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1 Case --- 1260 rounds
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447 Brooklyn Street
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toll free: (888) 215-5522

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[fisi]

cheapest .308 is the s.a. in the 140 rnd pack $37, another shop wanted $45
for the same pack and the worst was $69 for the same 140 rnds at a shop across town. this is all in the metro phoenix area..........

 

[Chris Rhines]

With a FAL and its twenty round magazines, I can go through two hundred rounds in a single shooting session. How long does it take to load that many by hand?

About half an hour, counting the time to size and trim the brass but not including the time spent cleaning it. That's with a Dillon 650.

Considering also the limited space I have available in my apartment. I don't think an industrial-grade relaoding setup is going to fit too terribly well.

Man, one of my friends (who may be along shortly to chastise you for your whinging) used to keep his Dillon bolted to a desk in the bedroom of the Berkley hippie co-op he lived in. If you have a room with a corner or a closet, you have enough space to reload.

- Chris

 

[Chris Orndorff]

Slightly OT, but whatever happened to the SA 5.56 battlepacks? One day I was paying .11 p/round and the next day...no more SA. I still have four packs that I can't bring myself to break into. Of course, shooting my M1A is lots more fun .

 

[Joe Mamma]

"I can't offer any suggestions, unfortunately. I will note that I don't recommend the Lake City bulk surplus. It's bottom-of-the-barrel stuff. I bought 500 rounds of it (headstamps are LC 02, LC 03 and LC 04), and had a lot of problems. OAL is wildly inconsistent. I understand that's in large part why it is available in the first place -- it failed the QC tests necessary for both front line and practice ammo for the US military. "

Are you talking about this:

http://www.natchezss.com/brand.cfm?...brand=FA&category=0&prodID=FAXM762D&src=ba320

Does anyone have an opinion on the quality of it?

Thanks.

Joe Mamma

 

[mattw]

Even buying cheap graf's .308 brass and with C&R discount on cheap SP bullets and such, I can't load .308 for less than around .45cents/round. Even reusing brass that just knocks it to .25-.30cts/rd. Until surplus gets to these figures it's still cheaper to stock up on the surplus .308. 2nd the 8mm, too bad it's corrosive, if it wasn't I'd rebarrel my .308 rifles to it. .05cts/rd can't beat that!

So are you saying that reloading .308 costs you 45 cents a round? That is outrageous! I was actually thinking about getting a simple reloading setup to feed my M1A and 1911 but if that is true i'll just keep getting the surplus ammo!

or did you really mean .45 cents which is close to half a cent per round.

 

[dmckean44]

mattw,

You don't save a lot of money reloading, theres very little mark-up in ammunition already. You only save money by re-using your brass over and over. But it's not really worth it because after brass has been fired a couple times you'll start getting feed problems and wish you never invested in all that equipment in the first place.

Surplus ammo is a deal but .308 is drying up and getting expensive the last few months. 8mm Mauser is the best deal going right now (you can't beat 5 cents a round). I know it's corrosive but I always clean my rifles after shooting anyway. If you're a high volume shooter you might want to look into guns that shoot that round.

 

[goon]

I can't speak for you guys but I have bought a lot of the South Afrcan stuff from AIM and other than having to kick up my gas regulators by one click I have no complaints. I have recently gotten into shooting an AR and for the same amount of milsurp 5.56 you are paying more. If you go with something like M855 or XM193 you are paying about $100 more for a thousand rounds. If you had to buy American 7.62x51 you would most likely be paying more than that.

One thing that may work is what I have been doing to stretch my limited ammo budget lately.
I shoot rimfires a lot and I generally only take 60 rounds or so of .308 or 5.56 to the range with me. I shoot 40 with emphasis on making all of my shots hit instead of just making noise and save the rest for a loaded mag on the way home.
With the AR I can shoot Federal American Eagle .223 and save my "good" ammo.
It isn't as satisfying as just haphazardly blasting away with a FAL and as many mags as I can find but that isn't the only reason I shoot.
I considering staying somewhat proficient with a rifle my duty as an American. If shooting a .22 instead helps me do that, well, I guess I can think of worse ways to support the safety of my country than plinking at aluminum cans on the 100 yard berm with my CZ-452.

 

[USSR]

By the looks at the prices you guys are quoting, it looks to me like you guys are paying about $0.25 per round of surplus ammo. If you can't reload .308 suitable for your spray and pray's for less than $0.15 per round (excluding brass cost, as it is reusable), you are doing something wrong.

Don

 

[longhorngunman]

No, around 45cents per round, 1/2 cent a round won't even buy you a primer . Now this is with new brass, reuse the brass and you knock 15-20 cents per round off the original. On average I figure say, 20cents brass, 10cents bullet(even more with premium bullets), 10cents of powder, 2 cents for primer. Ok, so $.42 cents a round then add in your trimming tools, lube, etc and i'd say .45 cents is fair. Unless your gun really mangles the brass like my PTR91 you should get more than a couple firings, some guys get 10 or more. Still cheaper reloading when it comes to premium bullets and you can make it more accurate than off the shelf hunting ammo.