Bullet casting/sizing setup - seeking advice

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119er

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I have decided to cast bullets. What I seek now is experienced opinions on what equipment to purchase. I only like doing it once.

My goals:

I would like to cast bullets for 9mm, .45 ACP, .45 Colt and .38/.357 for range plinking. Possibly rifle on down the road but not a priority.

I would like to do long sessions casting many bullets, say a whole day of casting in a volume format. (Of course I will take the time to learn thouroughly first)

Thoughts:

Bottom pour pots appeal to me over a ladle.
I do not want to tumble lube bullets.
I am willing to wait longer for more expensive equipment if it is worth the extra cost.
If I can I would like to get equipment that has the most support/options avoiding proprietary limitations.
Quality will trump quantity and shear production can take a hit to achieve it. (say 3 cavity over 6 cavity if the bullet quality of 6 cavity is lesser)

Please offer your advice to help me get started on the right track! I don't want to repeat my learning curve from buying reloading equipment!
 
Are you familiar with boolit casting at this time, do you have dedicated cast bullet reloading manuals? If not, there is no doubt you will receive good sound advice for other casters here on THR.

But with that said, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php is a site which is dedicated to cast boolits only. The different forums will be related to your questions posed here. With new caster’s being actively encouraged to take up the hobby, a great group of experts there will be more than happy to answer any and all of your questions.
 
To start off with, you will get several replies on the Lee equipment. It is either a love or hate relationship. To be honest, IMO, they make a "good" product for a good price. What they produce will get you shooting and if your looking for volumn the 6 cavity molds are hard to beat. How you use and take care of them will determine how well they work for you. For "greatness" in a mold, you more or less have to turn to semi custom to get it. Places like NOE, Accurate, MP molds, and such. The prices might be a bit higher and the cavity count might only be 4 at tops with some, but you get what you want and what you pay for. The downside is you might have to wait seemingly forever for one to be built if it is a group buy like some of them are. What you will find if you read enough and research enough molds is they will all make great bullets and they can all make junky bullets, there is more to it than just having a $200 custom mold and it automatically just pours great bullets from the get go. Each and every one has a break in period, and depending on what it is made of, might be three or more casting sessions. Also depending on the alloy, and the temp of it, can make a world of difference in good or bad bullets as well, or if they stick, or pull apart, etc... It will also depend on if your pouring say in a Lyman mold if your using something equivalent to Lyman #2 alloy as to the weights of the bullets and possibly even the as cast sizes as well.

As for pots, I use the Lee 4-20, with an added PID controller attached ( see Project PID ).

This allows me to set a temp for my alloy and it will keep it there within a 10-20 degree spread, usually a bit closer. It's an extra hundred or so bucks, but after using it three or four times you will wonder why you didn't start out with it. Is it necessary, nope, but it sure is great to have. There are several post on this over there so read through them all then decide if its something you might want to add. I promise if you DO, you won't be sorry.

With the 4-20, aka-drip o matic, a bit of up front detail will almost completely stop the drip. Just use some lapping compound to lap in the seat and stem where they mate up, and it will go far in keeping you from having any issues. Also "DO NOT USE IT TO SMELT WHEEL WEIGHTS OR ANY OTHER DIRTY ALLOY IN". Pick up a decent cast iron or SS pot with a decent thick bottom and sides for smelting down your raw alloy, then after fluxing pour into ingots. Only put clean and well fluxed alloy ingots in your casting pot and you will be miles ahead.

Invest in a lead thermometer to start with and you will be miles ahead. I think the best one is from NOE molds, and goes for about $25. Its about the same type as the rest only cheaper. Again this is something some feel isn't necessary, and while that may be, it is something I started out with and when I bumped up the temp a little at a time until I poured perfect bullets from the get go, I noted that temp and when using that mold again I know where to start out to get good bullets from the start. I hate looking at each and every bullet from a 20 or more pound session, and by using the thermometer or the PID my cull rate is down to around 20 or so at most from a 500-1K pour. I can usually see them when they pop and it is usually the bottom that is the issue, when I get going too fast. Also using a thermometer when you are smelting down your raw alloy is VERY useful to help make sure your not getting any zinc weights melted down in your lead ones. By keeping your smelt down in the 650 - 680 range the zinc wheel weights will float to the top to be skimmed out with the other clips and junk. It is also useful when your melting down unknown alloy to help determine what it might actually be. Using some of the melt temp charts you will quickly find that lead, tin, and other things will melt at a certain temp and this can be used when you start gathering up mystery metal.

Lubes,
Don't knock the tumble lube, it is fast, efficient, and works on every style of bullet. I use it on 98% of what I pour because of that. In fact I only just last week purchased a lube sizer only to get started with some rifle bullets. IF you want the best lube for TL'ing, go to White Label Lubes, and order some of the 45-45-10 Xlox, and be happy. It is simply the same as the Lee Alox with Johnson's Paste wax already blended in and it makes a nice non sticky finish on your bullets and dries within about 5 minutes or less if you pre warm your bullets with a hair drier. I have run it on lowly target loads of only 650 - 700 fps up to full blown gas checked 454 loads pushing 1700fps with no issues. It just works and works well for most needs.

For sizing, also don't knock the Lee push through. They are fast and efficient for sizing bullets. I use exclusively for now, as mentioned I only just did get the Lyman 4500 for rifle bullets. I don't even know when I will set it up since the Lee works so well. Thing I like about Lee sizers is you don't have to have a separate nose punch to fit each type of bullet you want to size like with the lube sizers. With the Lee if your bore needs a .452 diameter bullet for fit you use the .452 sizer and go for it regardless of which bullet it is or if it is a RN, a HP a SWC or RFN. You set them on the stem and run them through. After several thousand depending on how hard you push the sizer and all you might wear one out with a little wear on one side or another or to the stem, but for $20'ish bucks, to get another one it isn't he end of the world. The lube sizers are great and plenty of folks use them. My reservation has been I like to try different lubes on different loads, and having to clean out half a load of lube just to try out another one on 25 or so bullets just isn't my thing. I can easily pan lube a hundred or more bullets or just dip lube and dozen in what ever lube I want to try and again run them through the Lee sizer and be ready to load and shoot. Just what ever fits your style.

You mention LONG casting sessions, trust me when I say, even with a 4 cavity mold, I can easily pour up 40-50 pounds of alloy in an hour or two depending on the exact bullet. Figuring most of mine are for my bigger handguns and run on average 250grs, taking 45 # x 7000 divided by 250 you get 1260 bullets. That my friend is a PILE of bullets to be sized and lubed, and that is with a 4 cavity and not pushing it. That is 315 pours, and adding in another 25-35 pounds of alloy into the pot from what I started with as I go. This also doesn't take into effect the weight of said mold by it's self much less when you pour in close to half a pound of lead. You will feel the effects of it the next day, trust me.

As with anything your research will go far in getting exactly what you want. That said even when you think you did, your going to find something you wished you had gotten different. It just happens. For utensils like straining spoons and stirring spoons, pots and pans and such look to the dollar stores, big box stores or garage sales or where ever to pick them up cheap. Just try and get the spoons with a wooden handle and that are welded, or riveted, and not brazed or soldered. Another thing that is good to have are some of the sheet metal cake pans for dumping bullets into. They come in various sizes and something in an 8x8x2 or 8x12x2 will hold a good number of bullets. Just thrown a shop rag or similar type towel in the bottom to absorb a bit of the shock from the drop and fill them up.

One last thing that has helped out greatly for me and it is another one that will either be an asset or non issue. I and man others use a small one or two burner hot plate to pre heat the molds while the alloy is getting up to temp. Plenty say just to set the mold up top of the pot and let it warm up there and I have done that, also sticking one corner of the mold into the molten lead works well for others. Myself I like to simply set the temp of the hot plate, put which ever mold or molds on the grill, then turn on the pot. When the alloy is up to temp and the hot plate has cycled on and off a couple or three times everything is ready to start pouring great bullets at the same time. I use both aluminum and brass molds and they each take a different temp setting. I simply gradually heated them up, just as I did with the alloy, until they poured great bullets then marked the setting on the hot plate dial. Now I simply turn it to the proper mark , and when the mold and alloy both get there, I pour.

Hope this helps....
 
Bottom pour pots appeal to me over a ladle.

I agree bottom pour is the way to go for any kind of production. I use the Lee 4-20 it works just fine and has for years, and it cost so little if a problem should arise it can be replaced several times for the same price as one RCBS furnace.

I do not want to tumble lube bullets.

I don’t tumble lube bullets either, but I understand it works well and it’s much faster than lube sizers.

I am willing to wait longer for more expensive equipment if it is worth the extra cost

It has been my experience that all available equipment does what it is supposed to. Only you can determine if any extra cost is worth it.

If I can I would like to get equipment that has the most support/options avoiding proprietary limitations.

I don’t see much of a problem here, the dies and top punches on the Lyman and RCBS sizers are interchangeable. All molds, furnaces, ect. can be used together.

Quality will trump quantity and shear production can take a hit to achieve it. (say 3 cavity over 6 cavity if the bullet quality of 6 cavity is lesser)

The quality of finished bullets will depend more on you and your casting practices and not so much on equipment used.
 
119er,

As hang fire said in post #2, go to the cast boolits website.

Bottom pour pots appeal to me over a ladle.

Definitely. Lee makes affordable bottom pour pots.

I do not want to tumble lube bullets.

+1. Get yourself either the Lyman or RCBS lubrisizer. I can also highly recommend White Label lubes that are used by many of the guys on the cast boolits forum.

I am willing to wait longer for more expensive equipment if it is worth the extra cost.
If I can I would like to get equipment that has the most support/options avoiding proprietary limitations.
Quality will trump quantity and shear production can take a hit to achieve it. (say 3 cavity over 6 cavity if the bullet quality of 6 cavity is lesser)

+1. Buy quality and cry once...! When you go to the cast boolits forum, you will find that there are Group Buys for moulds being run all the time. These are custom built moulds of the highest quality that are not available to the general public. There are two primary manufacturers of these moulds:
MP-MOLDS and NOE. The MP-MOLDS moulds are made in Europe of brass, and they are some of the finest moulds made. The NOE moulds are made here in the states of aluminum, and they are excellent as well. There is normally a long wait between when guys commit to buying these moulds and when they are produced and shipped, but the wait is well worth it. Let me know if you need more info.

Don
 
Thanks guys, I'll head over to Castboolits soon. I usually use THR as my one stop shop! This forum has accelerated my understanding of reloading tremendously. The internet can be a wonderful thing! If used with discretion.
 
This is the machine I built to cast bullets.http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=158478&highlight=Master+caster
It's as close of a copy of a master caster as I could make from a photo, then I automated it.
There are a few others that have automated them over at castboolits.com too, in the last year or so.

I also built a pneumatic sizer that runs automatically.

Used A bunch of different lubes over the years but am liking the results from the bayou bullet coating.
 
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