California bullet ids

[noonanda]

take it with a grain of salt but here is my letter to the governor (you can edit this and use it for yourself if you would like). Sorry if it is kind of long

Dear Governor Schwarzenegger,

As a Former and soon to be again California Resident, I urge you to veto SB357, the ammunition serialization bill. This bill will hurt California firearm owners for no appreciable gain.

I am a United States Marine, and every day the armed forces of the United States defend this Great Nation. We protect the freedoms that some people take for granted every day. Yet while we defend these freedoms, there are people that would like to restrict, reduce or outright ban some of the freedoms granted by the Constitution. SB 357 is the kind of bill that would do this.

The premise behind this bill has merit. The idea is that in a perfect world, if all handgun ammunition in California was serialized, there would never be an unsolved crime. The police would be able to determine who purchased the ammunition, and in conjunction with AB 352, determine what gun the bullet was fired from. But unfortunately this will not work, and we do not live in a perfect world.

SB 357 would make it illegal to possess any un-serialized handgun ammunition after 2007. But herein lies the problem. The Criminal element in California will not be deterred by this bill if enacted into law, just like they are not deterred by any of the laws currently on the books. If they were deterred they would not be called criminals.

This Bill will only affect the hard working law abiding citizens of California. It will increase the price and reduce the availability of handgun ammunition that is used for both recreational and sporting purposes, as well as Self Defense.

Many ammunition companies have already stated that the cost of serialization would be cost prohibitive and impractical to manufacture for the importation into California.

SB 357 will effectively accomplish in California what “The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence” has been trying to accomplish for many years. It would make an entire class of firearms unusable to the civilian populace of California. No SB 357 does not ban or order the destruction of any firearms. But instead it makes possession of un-serialized ammunition illegal, and anyone in possession of said ammunition a Criminal.

If the ammunition companies decide not to produce handgun ammunition that will comply with SB 357 for the civilian market, then it will render all handguns in California as unusable and unshootable. If there is no legal ammunition, the handgun cannot be fired. This will unfortunately only affect the Law abiding citizens of California, not the Criminals. The Criminals will most likely resort to illegal importation of ammunition from other states.

There are other states that have tried to enact such measures and they have failed. Cost alone is one of the reasons. For SB 357 to work there would need to be a database of ammunition dealers licensed to sell in California. Then the dealers would need to report any ammunition sold, what type of ammunition, who it was sold to, and what the serial number of the ammunition is. This will quickly become a paperwork nightmare and burden to California, taking vital tax dollars from other critical issues.

If SB 357 was enacted into law, what would be the recourse of law abiding citizens that possess “un-serialized” ammunition?? Would there be a grandfather clause similar to the Assault Weapons ban? Or would all un-serialized ammunition be rendered illegal and possession makes you an automatic Felon??

I will be returning to the great state of California in March, and look forward to living there. But I ask you as Governor to protect my freedoms as I as a U.S. Marine protect the freedom of all American citizens.

 

[ClonaKilty]

sumpnz: Arizona! Oh yes, that's on the short list. However I hear that many LA refugees have moved there and have driven house prices up to near-LA prices....but it's definitely attractive.

 

[sfhogman]

Noonanda, that was well-written. As a California resident, thank you.

And thank you for your service, as well.

Best,
Jeff

 

[UberPhLuBB]

Criminal: "Yo, lemmie get a box of those 9's."
Clerk: "Ok, here you go. I'll just need your driver's license and you'll need to fill out this bullet serialization form here."
Criminal: "Huh? Form? Like I need to put my address and phone number and stuff on it? Uhh... I left my wallet in the car."

The criminal is not heard from again in that store. He then goes either to his underground network or simply drives to Nevada or Arizona for his ammo, which will be markedly cheaper than in California.

So now the only ones left who are filling out forms, paying extra and having their rights infringed are we law abiding citizens.

Why can't legislators think 2 or 3 steps into the future? :banghead:

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Noonanda,

That's an excellent letter. Our gov has not been a friend to gun owners, but he has demonstrated that he is sensitive to the voters/political hot potatoes.

I read somewhere that television networks figure that for every letter they receive, there are 17 other patrons who feel the same way but won't take the time to write.

Doubtless politicians are aware of similar statistics.

The thing that really frosts me is that if you look at a county-by-county breakdown of political ideology in California, the map shows most of the state is conservative. But our voting power is negated because the highest concentrations of population are in the largest metropolitan areas.

 

[DarthBubba]

Lest Ye all forget

Lest Ye all forget,

So goes The Peoples Republic of California So goes the rest of the United States eventually.
It is plane to see that the Communist party controlled 9th Circuit Court will find no reason to challenge the new law and eventually it will end up for Federal consideration as a good idea.
You folks in California need to quit inflicting this trash on the rest of us.
Rise up and take your state back before it is to late.
I fear we will have to wall off your state line and give you all over to China soon such a shame, Maybe you can get a good spot on the Central Comity.
Stop whining and do something.

DarthBubba

 

[SigLaw]

I contacted the Governor and this is the reponse I got. While the reply came the same day it is a bunch of idle politician speak.

"Thank you for emailing Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger regarding SB 357. The Governor appreciates you voicing your opinions on proposed legislation affecting our State.

The Governor does not take a position on legislation until a final bill has reached his desk. The Legislature has until September 9, 2005 to pass legislation and the Governor has until October 9, 2005 to sign or veto proposed bills. Should the Governor take action on this bill, the Governor's Office will notify you at that time.

You may continue to follow this and any other bill before the State Legislature at the Official California Legislative Website: www.leginfo.ca.gov. You may also read any legislative messages from the Governor at his website: www.governor.ca.gov.

Again, the Governor appreciates your interest in California's future. An informed and engaged citizenry is important to effective government in our State.

Sincerely,


Office of Constituent Affairs" :banghead:

 

[UberPhLuBB]

I read somewhere that television networks figure that for every letter they receive, there are 17 other patrons who feel the same way but won't take the time to write.

Doubtless politicians are aware of similar statistics.

I'm sure both of those are true.

But the difference is that television networks HAVE to change their programming to suit their viewers or they loose Nealson ratings immediately. Whereas politicians further their own agenda while keeping their constituents in the dark for as long as possible. Liberal committee members can't actually believe their cause, right? They can't honestly and truely believe that some numbers in a barrel or on the back of a bullet are actually going to stop criminals from getting guns and ammo can they? They just spew 100% lies based on emotion instead of fact to sway the votes coming their way. With voters in high population "liberal" areas being as apathetic as they are (I suspect that big cities aren't actually liberal in majority but are being manipulated by the liberal politicians there) it's got to be easier than ever. It's a shame conservatives are so honest or we might stand a chance.

It's literally sickening to me.

 

[OneFireStick]

I got the same response from the governor as siglaw did.

 

[Beethoven]

Bump.

 

[bg]

I hung around for 10 or 15 mins until I talked with one of the staff.
She was buried, but did write down my opinion and said she would get
to the Gov's desk. I always make a point of saying thank you for taking
my call and hope I'm not taking too much of your time. I most times
ask how the staff worker is doing will a lil chit chat to go with it. Seems
it works once in a while. You know the ole honey vs vinegar thing..

Didn't work so hot for the 50 bmg deal though..

 

[Gordon Fink]

They can’t honestly and truely believe that some numbers in a barrel or on the back of a bullet are actually going to stop criminals from getting guns and ammo can they?

They believe—perhaps correctly—that if fewer law-abiding citizens have firearms, then fewer criminals will have them. Of course, even eliminating firearms would do nothing to reduce violence.

~G. Fink

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

DarthBubba:

You folks California

That's a pretty broad brush you're painting us with.

First, if you look at one of those red/blue maps on a county-by-county breakdown of California, most of California is actually conservative. That has also been my observation since having moved here seven years ago.

Second, the highest concentrations of population are the strongest voting blocks and they override our vote. LA, San Fran, Sac, etc. Actually, many feel we need to split the state and let the libs have southern Cal (with San Fran) and we take the rest.

Third, some of our most notorius people came from back east. Barbara Boxer, anti gun pit bull: Brooklyn, NY. Grayout Davis, anti gun ex-gov: Bronx, NY. Arnie: Austria. Charles Manson: Cincinnati, Ohio.

Finally, we're trying. But there's only so much one can do. The 60's brought the nation's liberals to CA. After the revolution was over (and they lost), they realized they were too stupid to do anything else in life other than a) either walk the streets with a sign which says, "will work for food" or b) go into politics. The latter dominates Cal politics.

 

[ckyllo]

so someone could just pick up spent cases from a gun range and plant them at a crime scene. how about going to the berm, digging up some spent bullets in a smaller caliber, make a sabot to fit a larger caliber.... some unknowing person gets framed for murder cause his cases/bullets were found at the crime scene. great system!

 

[Shalako]

Hey, that way the DOJ can close more cases! Who cares who actually did the crime, they have a number on the shell casing and a new psuedo-criminal to lock up. This will really help the DOJ ratio of crimes:convictions.

My tax dollar at work......

 

[NHBB]

sickening... it truly turns my stomach to hear of these absurd notions, and on top of that those in power to pass them into law agreeing within their majority. I am starting to think CA is just a lost cause.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Given that ammo can be kept for decades, it seems that the assigned "serial numbers" should never be repeated. Has any thought been given to how many digits these serial number would have to have? If the number is too long, there is a great chance that at least part of it will be lost. Would they use a base 10 system (Arabic numberal) or a base 36 system (alpha-numeric) or what? Is serializing all cases and bullets even techologically feasable? (I realize that the lawmakers of Cali don't care because the intent is to make gun use prohibitvely expensive.)

 

[dolanp]

I wonder if they will start requiring stolen ammo to become reported to the governmen like stolen guns? Ammunition will become a much more lucrative bounty for criminals looking to steal arms since the serial numbers will lead to Citizen Joe.

 

[Beethoven]

CALL AND WRITE, CALL AND WRITE!!!

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Beethoven

To whom should we write? Email or hard copy? Call?

 

[Beethoven]

PNR: Good to see you. You ever go to GT any more?

Anyhow, follow this link for all the info: http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml

Currently, we are waiting to see which committee each bill will be assigned to, so until then, we have to sit tight for a bit.

One thing we can and must do is to write the governator and express our opposition to these bills, in case they do make it to his desk:


Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-445-4633

To send an Electronic Mail please visit:
http://www.govmail.ca.gov

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Beethoven

Thanx for the link. I emailed the gov but got the same canned response as everyone else.

BTW, what is GT?

 

[jobu07]

Are there any images floating around the net (computerized or artists rendition or otherwise) of what one of these cali-bullets would look like? I'm curious also, haven't read for certain, if the S.N. is required to be engraved onto the bullet, the brass, or both?

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

jobu

As I understand it, there are two versions of the bill.

1) Will require a certain type of handgun (autoloaders?) to inscribe a number on a fired case each time the gun is fired. This would necessitate the firearm manufacturer to machine raised numbers inside the chamber of every barrel. There are so many ways to defeat this process (e.g., aftermarket barrels) that it is absurd.

2) Bullet manufacturers will have to inscribe a unique number on the base of every bullet/cartridge manufactured. Also, there are numerous ways to defeat this.

If it passes here, look for other states to follow suit.

 

[sumpnz]

P&R -

This would necessitate the firearm manufacturer to machine raised numbers inside the chamber of every barrel.

Not as I understand it. Think about the physics of that for a moment. Whether the number was raised or engraved feeding (in the case of raised) or extracting (in the case of engraved) would be impossible. Try feeding even a very slightly crippled (cripple is a localized buckle) case sometime (same effect as raised numbers in the chamber). Besides, either way the number would get smeared during extraction.

What they are requiring for that particular bill is that the gun imprint the identifier somewhere on the case head. I believe the intent is to have the firing pin make the stamp on the primer. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, these are two completely seperate bills. They do not have to reconciled before going to the Govenator. Either, both, or neither could become law in KA.