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Lawmakers Consider Stamps on Bullets

Discussion in 'Legal' started by rick_reno, Aug 3, 2005.

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  1. rick_reno

    rick_reno member

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    Old topic - new article.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164550,00.html

    Lawmakers Consider Stamps on Bullets
    Tuesday, August 02, 2005

    LOS ANGELES — Lawmakers in California now have two bills on the table that could aid in the search for gun-firing assailants.

    Forensics investigators currently have the ability to match the unique signature on every bullet to the gun it was fired from. The problem then becomes, for detectives and law enforcement, finding the gun itself and the person who fired it.

    California Senate Bill 357 and its sister bill Assembly Bill 352 would have all new guns stamp an I.D. number on shell casings as they fire, and require every semi-automatic handgun sold after Jan. 1, 2009, to be equipped with the new microstamping technology that assigns traceable serial numbers to individual bullets.

    According to these proposals, any semi-automatic not on California's Section 12131 roster —the list of weapons that do not possess the ability to create microstamps — will be defined as an "unsafe" handgun.

    California state Assemblyman Paul Koretz (search), D-West Hollywood, is one of the bill's authors.

    "Imagine how much easier it would be, in the case of my bill microstamping, if there was just a number and you call it into a database and you know exactly who it is in five or 10 minutes," Koretz said.

    Critics argue the laws will punish law-abiding citizens and sportsmen by raising costs. Those in the gun and ammo manufacturing business add that they're tired of bearing the brunt of gun crime and accuse lawmakers of targeting their livelihood.

    "I will stop selling ammo the day after. So if that's what the lawmakers want, is that guys like me to get out of the ammunition business, then all they have to do is tell me I have to spend 15, 20 minutes to paperwork a $2 box of ammo and I'm out," says Ted Szajer, owner of L.A. Guns.

    Opponents insist these laws are just anti-gun politics that penalize law-abiding citizens who do not abuse guns.

    Sam Paredes, the Executive Director of the organization Gun Owners of California (search), said recreational use will be adversely affected.

    "Small .22 caliber ammunition — that people use to play with and for target practice — the cost of that will be $50, $60, $70 a box if this bill were to go into effect. That isn't going to solve any crimes," he said.

    But members of law enforcement and lawmakers and who support the bills call traceable bullets an obvious next step in connecting criminals to their crimes.

    The bill proposed by Attorney General Bill Lockyer (search) and supported by the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence has already passed the Assembly and one Senate panel. It is up for further review in August.
     
  2. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    California continues to suck.
    Also, violence in Iraq.
    Africans clash.
    News at 11.
     
  3. TCW

    TCW Member

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    Of course criminals would never think to drive across the border to AZ or NV and stock up on unmarked ammo.

    Nor would they just stock up before the ban.

    Nor would they get ahold of someone elses casings from a shooting range and throw it down at a crime scene to leave a false trail. NOPE!!

    They're just gonna pick up thier registered box of ammo (for $50) and go shoot someone during a crime and leave all the evidence behind.

    Boy, Crime is gonna be a sinch to solve now! Eutopia is just around the corner everyone! The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence and the libs told me so!

    :barf: :barf: :barf:
     
  4. Alex45ACP

    Alex45ACP Member

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    Nor would they just use a revolver or pick up the shell casings after the shootings :rolleyes:

    :what:
     
  5. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    Cops finds unmarked shell casings all over murder scene.
    "Now we have 2 crimes to solve!!!!"
     
  6. chaim

    chaim Member

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    I spoke with my anti-gun dad about these attempts in CA and even he knows it is stupid. Just try to imagine the record keeping logistics alone (how many millions or even billions of rounds are sold and fired in this country every year?). Just think of what the cost of such a system will do to the cost of ammo :eek:
     
  7. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    And now we arrive at the entire point of the bill. Its "accidental" gun control. Ammunition rises to $3 a round, and guess how many people are involved in the hobby or how many gunshops/ranges go out of business.
     
  8. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    I like how there isn't one single word in the article questioning whether such a system would even work. The only complaint they print from our side (in the interest of "balance" no doubt) is the fact that it will raise costs for law-abiding gun users tremendously.
     
  9. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    He can't really believe that, can he? Is that level of blissninnyism possible?
     
  10. shermacman

    shermacman Member

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    A regulation like this is not intended to work. It is intended to fail. It will be catastrophically expensive, impossible to administer, the legal issues will be insurmountable.

    Therefore, the only sensible thing left to do is to ban all guns.
     
  11. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    <teletype sound effects>

    This just in from WWTF in Downtown Los Angeles:
    Assembly Person Bocephus NumbNuts expressed concern about the amount of energy being used in the state. In response to unsustainable energy usage AP NumbNuts is introducing legislation which would greatly reduce the state's reliance on gravity. To avoid causing undue hardship on oil companies, curbs on gravity will be phased in over a 5 year period.

    Stay tuned to WWTF on this developing story.

    </teletype sound effects>

    Idiots are everywhere. :D
     
  12. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    I wondered what had happened to these dumb bills. To all Cali gunowners - plenty of room across the Wall here in Free AZ. Come over before we man the cactus throwers and coyote launchers to stop the Gucci mobs.
     
  13. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Actually, in this particular instance the legislation does not exempt law enforcement from the requirement. Whatever else the antis may imply, they certainly don't mean that they should be the ones with no guns. So in this case I think it is more a case of actual stupidity/graft then it is anti-gun sentiment.

    Frankly this is going to be such a catasrophe for gun control legislation if it does pass that I am almost hoping they do go forward with it.
     
  14. Kurush

    Kurush Member

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    This is even dumber than the original proposal. How exactly do they think the gun is going to stamp the brass? They are going to incorporate a machine press into the action? It is amazing to me how people who are completely ignorant of a subject and don't want to learn anything about it can be so passionate about it.
     
  15. rick_reno

    rick_reno member

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    I'll second that.
     
  16. DelayedReaction

    DelayedReaction Member

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    This bill won't change the cost of ammunition, as it's the gun that does the stamping. The only way I could see this working is if they developed a way to have the firing pin stamp onto the primer.

    Nevermind that changing out the firing pin is one of the easiest things to do in many guns. Assuming this goes through, most manufacturers would probably just replace the part. Springfield Armory did the same thing with my 1911 and MD's stupid ILS law; they created an internal lock safety in the mainspring housing. $30 later and my gun was lawyer free.
     
  17. TrybalRage

    TrybalRage Member

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    Wait, this doesn't make sense...

    This article is trying to say that ammunition that is pre-stamped and a gun that makes the stamp is the same thing....
     
  18. Kurush

    Kurush Member

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    I don't think stamping with the firing pin would work. I believe the brass will just dent more-or-less around the edges of the numbers without forming around them. I think you'd need a lot of force and some kind of bucking bar inside the brass to actually stamp it.
     
  19. shield20

    shield20 Member

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    No doubt, California is screwed. Read both these bills, which may both pass - and that will be it for handgun owners.

    The one (357) requires all handgun cartridges, and bullets (for reload) in possession outside of someone's dwelling to be serialized. It requires a complete registration process of all transactions from manufacturer to the end user. It allows NO transfer of serialized ammo w/o being a 'licensed seller'. It allows NO possession of unserialized ammo 'in public places' (any place from your dwelling doorway out.) It allows fees to be collected from end users (.005 /rnd) and from sellers ($50 /yr).

    The other (352) states: Existing law requires the submission of handguns by manufacturers for determining if the handguns are unsafe, as specified. This bill would provide that, commencing on January 1, 2007, no
    handgun may be submitted for that testing unless the handgun is designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters, that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched into the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and which are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when
    the firearm is fired.


    Add this along with the existing wording saying any new gun submitted for testing needs a loaded chamber indicator and magazine disconnect safety (in 2006).


    As of 2007 - it is pretty much over for legal handgun ownership in California. I do not think there is any way manufacturers of ammo or pistols will bother with such bull, nor will ammo 'sellers'. Just not worth it.

    I would not expect them to either. The people of Ca get what they voted for - only when criminals with their unregistered guns and unregistered ammo start running rampant over the unarmed public; or fired police brass is collected by some low-life to be left behind at crime scenes will all this anti-gun bull be seen for what it is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2005
  20. Luchtaine

    Luchtaine Member

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    And then they will hold to it like they do in DC. They'll never admit that their anti gun policies created the problem.
     
  21. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Gun issues aside, doesn't it scare anyone else that California has so many incredibly stupid state legislators? What have these folks been smoking?

    I'm so happy that I left when I did, and that we just sold our house in SD County ...
     
  22. BenW

    BenW Member

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    First he wants to microstamp bullets, now he want's to microstamp bills as well. Is there no stopping this madman???
     
  23. Gewehr98

    Gewehr98 Member

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    I would like to thank the legislators of the PRK...

    For their incredible foresight in setting me up for my next business venture - a reloading shop in Reno that sells unmarked brass, bullets, dies, presses, wheelweights, moulds, electric lead pots, and so forth. A perfectly legal business there on the Nevada side of the wall. I'm considering giving ********** residents a discount. :evil:
     
  24. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    What a completely feckless disaster! :uhoh:

    My dad always said that the guys who design cars should be required to fix them. Same should apply to government, those that pass laws should be required to administer them. :D
     
  25. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    EVEN IF this contemptible proposal passes and becomes law (which is highly doubtful), the compliance rate will be so low as to be meaningless. What it will do is make felons out of everyone caught with unserialzed ammo. California will suddenly contain millions of armed felons the first day this becomes law.

    I suspect it has an anti-Schwarzenegger political purpose; he will probably veto it. That would give the statists something to whine about; a ‘wedge’ issue come next election.
     
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