Bullets not perfectly straight after seating?

[jdwhite]

I just did my first batch of 50 9mm bullets. I tried not to overflare the brass, but after seating and crimping, a few bullets look like they are not perfectly straight. Is this a big deal?

 

[witchhunter]

It could be, try to bell your brass less and see it if gets better. You might want to load in small batches until it comes out right. Try em in your chamber and see if they fit easily.

 

[rg1]

It's a common complaint loading 9MM, 40 S&W, or 45 ACP calibers. If a bullet starts a little off it will leave a little bulge on one side of the case just where the base of the bullet stops. The slight bulge in the case at the base of the bullet should be even all the way around and not more bulge on one side than the other. I've never seen this to cause a problem with feeding or even accuracy. Only solution is to take extra time making sure the bullet sits straight when inserting it into the seating die. Bell the mouth just enough so the bullet will sit in position and won't tilt as it enters the die. You can't no matter how careful you are get 100% straight. Using the correct seating stem for the bullet you're loading is required. A new die with a seating stem with a sharp edge where it contacts the bullet may not allow the bullet to self align. Polishing any sharp edge helps but usually you will also see a mark on the bullet if it's a problem. Also, some of the seating stem tips have bad machining marks. If it isn't smooth where it touches the bullet then polishing the surface smooth and shiny helps the bullet self-align. I've used some fine sandpaper and a bullet I'm loading to push the sandpaper against the stem to polish out any machine marks. Most seater dies have different shaped seater stems. I gave up and bought separate Hornady seating dies which have a sliding alignment sleeve which has helped me seat pistol and some rifle bullets much straighter. If a bullet starts out crooked entering the case it's going to end up crooked.

 

[jdwhite]

Thanks for the advice. They 'plunk' fine in my Glock barrel. I will have to run to the range this week and see how they shoot.

 

[1SOW]

What was said above +, seating a bullet very shallow in the case (longer oal) is considered by some to increase accuracy. This comes mostly from 'rifle' parctices. Pistols are not the same when shooting 25 yards to even 50 yards. Seating them deeper improves the 9mm case hold and concentricity which does improve accuracy. That slightly increased case neck tension also improves the powder burn efficiency.


Not all agree with this, but I've found this to be true with most jacketted/plated bullets I use. One reason that JHPs ,, flat points and SWCs are held in high regard , is more straight bullet side in contact with the rifling, accompanied by the need to seat them deeper in the case.

Deeper in the case will make it easier to get concentricity.

 

[gamestalker]

You might consider trying something I've been doing since the inception of the .40 cal., in which, and at the time, all I had at my disposal was a 10mm die set. The Lee 10mm powder die and seating dies were too deep to reach the .40 cal. mouths. This little trick worked so well I continued using this method ever since for all my 9mm and .40 cal. loads.

I trim the brass so the mouth is square, though this isn't an absolute necessity, it does help them to seat straight. Then I chamfer the inside of the mouth slightly, just enough to give the bullet a shelf to set up straight on, and allow it to seat without shaving. Then it's just a simple process of setting them on the mouth and seating, no belling or crimp is at all necessary. And once you've trimmed the brass the first time, it often remains square enough to allow for subsequent reloadings with no more than just a light chamfer necessary to clean up any rough spots on the inside of the mouth.

GS

 

[joneb]

I have had this problem, after truing up the dies it has gone away. Assuming all else is right.

 

[GBExpat]

I chamfer the inside of the mouth slightly, just enough to give the bullet a shelf to set up straight on, and allow it to seat without shaving. Then it's just a simple process of setting them on the mouth and seating, no belling or crimp is at all necessary.

This is how I seat my jacketed & plated bullets. I have found that it takes a bit more care & patience during seating, but provides me with uniform neck tension. I load none of them particularly "hot" so I have found no need for any slight mouth crimping.

I bell & crimp only my lead & powdercoated bullets ...well, I do rollcrimp ALL my .38spc, .357mag, .44spc and .44mag (revolver) cartridges to varying degrees, but they don't headspace off of the mouth.

 

[Nordeste]

If they feed and cycle well, you can shoot them, no problem. However, the straighter you get your bullet on the case, the better finished your round will be, and the better your accuracy will be. This said, if you don't shoot Bullseye at 50 yards, there's a chance you won't notice the difference.

I bell my cases so I can put the bullet on the case and it sits straight and still before I pull the lever and seat it. Then adjust your crimp to remove the bell, keeping in mind what the sum of my bullet diameter plus the case wall thickness is, and they're good to go.

 

[Walkalong]

The straighter you start them, the straighter they seat, sleeved seater or not. I always bell just enough to get em started good. I really like the Lyman M-Die and the Redding copy cat expander dies for this.

 

[Potatohead]

I bet you're over analyzing this one. Is it very noticeable? I didnt even know it was possible for them to be more than just an iota of crooked.

 

[Blue68f100]

Or use the Hornady seating die with the drop down alignment sleeve. With these if there not sitting straight you can just spin the brass and it will self align. The drop down sleeve gives you and extra 1" for your fingers to get clear of the ram too.

 

[Potatohead]

I might have to check into that HDY die. Sounds nice, especially having more room to maneuver. I really need to broaden my die horizons, just have a pair of old Lees.

 

[vaalpens]

I don't have any experience if a not straight seated bullets will cause any problems, but I will check out a round if I am not sure how straight it is by rolling it on the table. If the bullet wobbles, then I will just pull it and not shoot it. The bullet can be reloaded and the brass resized to be used again. Why take any chances.

 

[Ankeny]

I have loaded tens upon tens of thousands of 9mm on my Dillon. When I got tired of fighting the little bulges and "crooked" loads, I went with a Lee factory crimp die. Problem solved.

 

[tcoz]

I just finished loading about 1k 9mm rounds using the Lee bullet seating die and it's amazing (I hate that word) how straight it seats the bullet if you barely flare the case at all. Even when the bullet is really sitting on the case crooked, they come out almost perfect in the rolling test.

 

[moxie]

That "bulge" you sometimes see is not from a bullet being seated crooked. It's the result of good relative settings on sizing and expanding dies. It's what gives you good neck tension. The case below seating depth is somewhat smaller in OD than the area around the bullet. It's good. The bullet's being "squeezed". More noticeable in the .45acp than the 9mm. I don't worry about crooked bullets. If they pass the plunk test they are good to go.

 

[Katitmail]

What press?

I had same issue with 9mm plated using Dillon seating die. Problem was - I had insert oriented "other" way. Inside a die there is a thingy (not sure what is the name for it) which can be oriented different ways for flat bullets or RN bullets. After I turned it around - bullets started to sit properly.

 

[gamestalker]

I'm also interested in the Hornady die with the sleeve thingy, sounds like a good thing. My competition seating dies for bottle neck have that feature, so it only makes sense that it would be beneficial for handgun loading also?

GS

 

[Hondo 60]

Depending on the who made the dies, you might need a seating stem that matches the bullet's nose profile.

Had kinda the same issue & RCBS sent a hand polished seating stem.
Works like a charm

 

[gamestalker]

Moxie made the point very well. I've always considered that bulge, which I refer to as the coke bottle look, as a good indication that neck tension is good. It's not a crooked bullet, it's what happens when the case is properly sized down, and then a bullet is forced in, thus producing maximum neck tension. This is certainly not a problem cartridge and most definitely not a reason to pull them and start over.

Even if the cartridge doesn't roll perfectly even across a flat surface, it isn't going create a problem, nor does it mean you have a problem or other wise improperly seated bullet. If that were the case, nearly all my 9mm and .40 would have been loaded incorrectly for the last 30 some years.

GS

 

[GLOOB]

+1 Lyman M die for 9mm and bottlenecked cases.

I might have to check into that HDY die. Sounds nice, especially having more room to maneuver. I really need to broaden my die horizons, just have a pair of old Lees.

I thought this was only on Hornaday rifle dies. I have never seen a pistol die with a dropdown sleeve, and I'm not sure how it would do any good on a stubby, rounded bullet, anyway.

In any case, they are totally unnecessary if you use a Lyman M die. I pinned the sleeve up on my Hornady rifle die after getting a Lyman M die. Levering the press up/down that extra fraction of an inch is wasted motion when your bullets sit and seat straight without it. Even flat base and short, stubby cast rifle bullets will sit and seat straight in the case if you use an M die. (Or course, using an M die adds an extra step on bottle necked cases, so it's not an overall time-saver for jacketed rifle bullets. It's just better).

I would buy one for all my pistol calibers, too, but I'm too cheap. In most pistol calibers, it won't often help too much. But if you want to load cast bullets in 9mm without fouling and with great accuracy, you might find it is particularly useful in that caliber due the thick, tapered shaped of the 9mm brass that gets squished down into a cylinder by modern carbide sizing dies.

 

[RAT807]

As for the wooble when you roll a loaded round, I have tested this quite a bit. I have Hornady carbide dies and most rounds after loading will roll straight. But I have some brass that woobles so bad, I don't even try to load. The last batch of brass I purchased, I had about 30 that would not roll straight. Tried Redding & Hornady dies, rotated the brass, rotated the shell holder and even shot them in a fully supported chamber to try and straighten them out. I was able to get 8 of them straight. The targets proved the more wooble, the larger the grouping. A round that is a little off will still shoot ok out to 25 yards. I do not have any issues with bullets being seated crooked in the case though.

 

[GLOOB]

I've always considered that bulge, which I refer to as the coke bottle look, as a good indication that neck tension is good. It's not a crooked bullet, it's what happens when the case is properly sized down, and then a bullet is forced in, thus producing maximum neck tension.

That bulge can be excessive. This is dependent on the sizing die and the caliber. Sizing dies size to the outside dimension, so one size doesn't fit all brass/bullet combinations.

If your sizing die is tight and/or if the brass is thick, the inner dimension is too small. The coke bottle effect is too much. Maximum neck tension occurs when the brass is maybe about 2 mics smaller on the inside diameter than the bullet, plus or minus a little, depending on diameter, thickness of brass, and brass alloy. Any smaller than that doesn't increase neck tension. It just increases plastic deformation of the brass when the bullet is seated and can damage the bullet. Whenever you see a pronounced coke bottle after seating, that's well more than a couple mics. For jacketed bullets, it doesn't matter, though.

When I expand my 9mm cases with my "M" die (actually a modified Lee die), I get the coke bottle bulge. Before I seat the bullet. I don't know how much more concentric the bullets are, or are not, but this prevents the base of the bullet from being swaged down by the brass - to as little as .353". A regular 9mm expander will way overflare the mouth of the case by the time it expands the brass around the base of the bullet, sufficiently. Many of them can't reach, at all.

The way to modify a Lee 9mm die is to buy the 38S&W (not special) expander plug and put it into the 9mm die body. The cost is $3.00. If you are worried about maximum neck tension with jacketed bullets, you will have to turn it down by a mil. That's how much bigger in diameter the plug is, compared to 9mm. But the important thing is that it reaches down farther into the case.