Bullets very loose in neck after resizing

[popper]

Same experience for me in .243 and 30-30. Not enough consistency, have to check them with a bullet before you prime and powder the case. Neat idea, just too much trouble. Get a F/L die and learn how to partial size. Much more consistent results.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Same experience for me in .243 and 30-30. Not enough consistency, have to check them with a bullet before you prime and powder the case. Neat idea, just too much trouble. Get a F/L die and learn how to partial size. Much more consistent results.

People actually use these for consistency. What were you saying?

 

[Redbearded1]

Thanks alot for all the info guys. It took some work getting it adjusted but now its working good. Finicky thing. I appreciate all the responses, it really helped my understand how that die actually works. I just wish lee would give better instructions.

 

[Redbearded1]

Well after sizing 60 rounds, priming them, loading them up with powder and trying to seat the bullets I discovered that the cases werent actually sized properly. The bullets only needed a bit of pressure to send them into the case. Some of them would fall into the case but not come out without pliers. ****. After getting mad and rammy I finally put enough pressure on the ram to get the neck sized right(i think) and I cracked my reloading bench after 20 rounds. ughh......Not a fan of these collet dies.

 

[twofifty]

Throwing this out there as it may be relevant to the OP or others...

I've noticed that if a case has been fired too many times, the neck resize does not "take". The brass has work hardened, and so it resizes poorly. Same thing happens with a normal FL die.

I don't anneal cases, so once a case refuses to neck size properly -regardles of the type of die used- I consider that it has reached its safe working life.

 

[Pete D.]

Collet

I have used the collet dies for more than 20 years. It could be that the die in question needs to be adjusted as mentioned earlier....so that the ram is a bit down from full when the die meets the shellholder.
But....maybe not the situation here....I have found that when the collet will not size the neck, nine times out of ten the brass is too hard and should be annealed.
I have had it happen that the die worked properly as advertised and then, without changing anything on that dedicated press, the die would not size.
Annealing solved the problem. Every time.
Pete

 

[Jaxondog]

Get a neck sizer and forget about the collet die , that is if you are loading that shell in the same gun. If to be shot in other gun's use a FL resizer and be happy

 

[Fatelvis]

The strange thing is that not every case is like this.

Is all the brass you're using of the same brand and lot#?

 

[kingmt]

You should be able to feel the die squeeze the case at the top of the press stroke, kinda like seating a primer has a "feel" when it's there. If you follow the lee instructions they want the die screwed way down in the press to protect the die. Trouble is most presses have very little leverage that far down and you won't get consistent results. I prefer sizing near top dead center. I can see damaging the die in some presses that cam over (like my rockchucker), but some guys can break anvils also. Make sure the top of the collet petals has a little lube. It actually takes a fair amount of force to work this die, which is why i like it to be TDC on a cam over press, exactly what the directions say NOT to do. Just be careful, once it's adjusted it'll work fine. the die IS somewhat sensitive to mouth wall thickness, so I'd stick to a single lot of brass to avoid lots of re-adjustment hassles.

This is how I adjust the die. Just enough to fell a slight cam over. I have only done a few 1K in 4 different calibers but no problems yet.

 

[helotaxi]

I've been using the collet sizer dies in .204, .223, .243 and .308 since I started loading about 4 years ago. Never had the slightest problem with consistency or concentricity. You shouldn't need to use that much force to properly size the neck. If it feels excessive, it probably is. That said, you need to make sure you have a sturdy bench.

Make sure that the mandrel is the correct diameter, as mentioned above. On a single stage or turret, I like the die set so that the lever is at least 20deg from the cam-over point when the collect starts to squeeze. I actually set it with a piece of brass in the shell holder. Otherwise you really don't know where you stand.

 

[kingmt]

What press are you using?

 

[Redbearded1]

The cases are once fired hornady custom, federal, and hornady superformance seperated into lots. It doesn't seem to matter which group I size, there are some that size and others that won't. The press is a lee breech lock challenger. I finally was able to exert enough force to produce the lines on the case but there was alot of force required. More than the 25 pounds it calls for. I like the idea of the collet sizer, but this is bordering on more effort than it's worth.

 

[helotaxi]

Something's not right then. Take the die apart. Clean it. Lightly hit the tapered portion of the collet and the forcing cone with some emory cloth and lube those two surfaces with a drop of oil. The die should operate smoothly and brass isn't that hard to swage.

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

Again, I'm not trying to beat this to death, but a couple of questions.

1. Die collet is not binding ... you can push it in and out freely.

2. Die is adjusted in press so you are just short of camming over.

3. When the collet touches the shellholder and you apply more pressure on
handle, you can actually "feel" the neck being squeezed by the collet
against the mandrel.

If you want to PM me with your address, I'll send a set of instructions off to you since yours were damaged. I really want to get you up and running on the collet die because it has been a MAJOR time saver for me. Not withstanding a previous posters smart comment, I do have considerable experience with Lee collet dies; he can accept that or not, I don't care.

It's YOUR problem that's got my attention.

I don't know if you can or want to try this, but I'd love to see a couple of your problem cases. I'd like to run them on my setup and send them back for your review.

I don't work for Lee, don't own any stock, just a satisfied customer and if it's worth it for you to continue forward with this ... it's worth it for me to be of whatever help I can be.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[Gillie Dog]

I have used the collet dies for more than 20 years. It could be that the die in question needs to be adjusted as mentioned earlier....so that the ram is a bit down from full when the die meets the shellholder.
But....maybe not the situation here....I have found that when the collet will not size the neck, nine times out of ten the brass is too hard and should be annealed. I have had it happen that the die worked properly as advertised and then, without changing anything on that dedicated press, the die would not size.
Annealing solved the problem. Every time.
Pete

+1

Every time I have had this problem, and it has happend, the brass needed annealing and once annealed it sized perfectly with very consistant neck tension. With Winchester brass and hot 22-250 loads I only get 2 firings out of them before collet sizing is inconsistant. The same has happened with FL dies to me also. I am sold on annealing brass when needed.

GD

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Not withstanding a previous posters smart comment, I do have considerable experience with Lee collet dies; he can accept that or not, I don't care..

Bill,
I saw your deletion and was being facetious. I meant no slight.

 

[nastynatesfish]

i use lee collets for every rifle i own and havent had a problem with them. if its not doing it to every piece of brass and your useing the same technique then its something with your brass. what type of brass are you using? i had some issues like this with some frontier brass i bought for a 2506, i went back to winchester and not a problem. your only suppose to use about 25lbs of pressure to operate the collet jaws in the die. if you keep having the issue and your possitive its not you call lee and tell them that the die is screwing up. send them the brass your having problems with and they will check it.

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

And I'm sorry too for my swipe at your comment!

Sometimes I forget what I know to be true, that computer posts are completely devoid of any ability for the reader to attach any "emotion" (which you can do with the spoken word) to the text.

What I should have done was read between the lines and NOT be so oversensitive ... almost like just spoiling for a confrontation. I'm really NOT like that and I thank you for your response and I feel more than a little ashamed at myself. Like they say: "no harm, no foul".

 

[popper]

About 240 pieces of .243 once fired brass, Lee N/S loaded with Amax or SP. Brass appeared to be sized but variation in tension was terrible. Some J-B would set back by hand, others were fine. Nothing like priming and dropping powder and then dumping the case 'cause the bullet won't fit correctly. 30-30 is also a PITA. FCD for bottle neck is a neat idea also, BUT if you blow out the neck for YOUR rifle, the neck is often too short to get FCD'd properly, so I drop it in from the top.

 

[FROGO207]

OP-----I do not know where you stand at the moment. If you have calipers does your mandrel (rod in the middle) measure .307? Does the bullet measure .308? If you look down the center of the die with no round in it and with the top and mandrel removed when you raise the ram until it stops do the four collet ears come together? You will probably need a flashlight for this step. Then the die is working correctly as this is how mine work. If not where are you having a difference? The mandrel should be .001 smaller than the bullet for a tight fit. It is possible that you got a second die that is defective. Mine have worked well for years also.

I was told by another reloader that running a Lee collet die up and tightly without a brass in it could cause the flexible ears to jam and not work correctly. Never happened to me but wanted to mention it for your info. Might be irreverent.

 

[kingmt]

I have been watching to see if you ever measured the mandreal.

 

[Redbearded1]

Hey folks, I haven't had a chance to take the die apart and check it out, cleaning, smoothing and lubing as you say. My main focus this weekend was building a new table top for my loading bench to fix where it was cracked. Im hoping to get everything set up again in a day or two.

I bought a digital caliper but the darn thing doesn't work right either! The digital scale reads half of what the ruler shows. So I'll have to take it back and get another before I can check the mandrel.

Thanks for all your efforts guys. I'll keep you posted as soon as I'm back in business, hopefully by Tuesday.

 

[kingmt]

2 things are you reading the scale on the right side & did you zero it?

 

[Redbearded1]

Okay everybody, I got my bench fixed and built it a little more stout. I also took e die apart, cleaned it, smoothed out a few rough edges on the collet fingers and the piece the collet slides into, re-cleaned and lightly oiled the die. Everything seems to be working fine now. I didn't really notice until I started using my press on the new bench, but my old one had a fair amount of flex that possible took away from the torque applied when sizing the brass. I'm not sure if it was that or the few imperfections on the die but I'm happy with the results. Thank you all for your effort and support. It made this situation much less frustrating.

 

[kingmt]

Flex in the bench does cause problems.