FL size or neck size?

[utbrowningman]

This may be answered elsewhere but since I am new to reloading, I'll ask. I bought the Lee Anniversary set and the Lee 3 die set. I understand new brass should be full length sized as well as brass fired in a different gun. I have collected brass fired in an '06 I no longer have. I full length sized that brass, trimmed, chamferred, etc. After I fire that brass in my new '06, is it fair to say I only need to neck size the case and maybe FLS every 3 or 4 loadings? Can my full length sizer accomplish this for do I need to get another neck sizing die?

 

[cfullgraf]

Correct. once fired in your 30-06, you can neck size it. When it gets difficult to chamber, then it is time to full length size again.

I assume your 30-06 is a bolt rifle.

Semi auto, lever action, and slide action rifles need to be full length sized every time.

 

[flashhole]

You will be a lot better off getting a dedicated neck sizing die. I recommend the Lee Collet Neck Die. It's inexpensive, simple to use, and there is not a better design on the market.

 

[jpwilly]

If you set up your FL die to only bump a few thou you can FL size without over working the brass.

 

[Walkalong]

Agreed. Partial full length size. Your not loading match ammo, nor could your gun show much of any difference there might be.

 

[gamestalker]

No, your FL die will not serve as a neck sizing die. You need a neck die to neck size or you'll still be working the walls and shoulders with the FL die no matter how you adjust it. Even backing it off as far as you can won't work, because then you'll be barely sizing the neck if at all. And if it were me, I would also get a small base die for the times when your necked brass gets too tight to chamber. The small base die will reset the shoulder without working the wall, or working it as much. If you send RCBS a case fired from your rifle they will make a small base die from your FL die, that is custom to your chamber.

 

[hey_poolboy]

I'll throw in another vote for the Lee neck sizing dies. They perform great. I did take the mandrel out of my .22-250 die and turn it down a couple thou. I really don't like to crimp, and in seating to the lands -.003 I found that the neck tension wasn't quite enough. After turning it down to change the neck tension a little my 96 swedish Mauser is down to .8" groups @235 yds.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I've been neck sizing only the same 100 pieces of brass for the past 20 years. With mid-range loads, '06 brass doesn't stretch much. I might have trimmed it once and have never full length sized it. I'd guess each case has 5+ loadings on it. I'd guess I've tossed out no more than a half a dozen pieces for split case necks.

 

[DM~]

The small base die will reset the shoulder without working the wall, or working it as much. If you send RCBS a case fired from your rifle they will make a small base die from your FL die, that is custom to your chamber.

This just isn't true! A SB die works the brass MORE than a FL die... Go to RCBS's website, and read what their dies do, and you will see what a SB die does compared to a FL die...

DM

 

[jpwilly]

A small base die does indeed work the case walls more than a FL buy a couple thousands.

I FL resize my "match" brass and I'm not alone most benchrest shooters do as well...although they usually have custom made dies made and I don't.

Certainly neck sizing is the easiest on the brass but doesn't mean your getting the brass back to the same dimensions every time. FL sizing is more accurate.

Again, I set up my die to FL resize just enough to make all the clearances the same from reload to reload and this can be accomplished on a per rifle basis. This is more accurate than just neck sizing at the expense of reduced case life. Although it works the brass to the min required for consistency and I don't have problems with chambering or extraction.

 

[murf]

you are right about full length sizing the new brass. you should get a neck sizing die to neck size imop. don't forget to check case length after the first firing. you may need to trim. welcome to handloading. it's addicting!

murf

 

[kelbro]

I think gamestalker may be thinking of a Redding body die...

 

[28lx]

I like the Lee collet dies and the Redding body dies used together. Am I the only one that finds partial full length sized ammo to be more accurate than neck sized only ammo?

 

[jpwilly]

I like the Lee collet dies and the Redding body dies used together. Am I the only one that finds partial full length sized ammo to be more accurate than neck sized only ammo?

No, have your read any of my posts?

 

[28lx]

jpwilly No I have not followed your post but it seems we agree.

 

[kelbro]

Redding body die + Lee collet die. Great combination.

As far as what sizing method works the best, you have to experiment to discover what is best for each gun. Some do better neck-sized, some PFL-sized, and others want to be FL-sized with a slight shoulder bump.

There are no shortcuts when you are trying to eek out that last 5% of accuracy.

 

[flashhole]

Can you be more specific as to what constitutes partial full length neck sizing. I see benefit in doing what jp described becasue the die can be adjusted to bump the shoulder back the minimum amount (I use .002"). But it depends entirely on your guns chamber. My 223 has a tight chamber and adjusting the FL sizer in accordance with the instructions works perfectly. There is no benefit to neck sizing only with this gun. My 25-06 on the other hand has a very roomy chamber and accuracy is improved most most with the Lee Collect Neck die. I don't think global statements about specific methods can be applied. You have to do a few measurement on fired brass to understand where to start.

 

[kelbro]

Partial FL sizing is simply backing the FL sizing die out a little which sizes the body some and the neck some. It will not usually set the shoulder back.

 

[cheygriz]

Partial FL sizing works well. But, IMHO, the ideal solution is to get a Redding neck sizing die and be done with it for life.

 

[Walkalong]

I consider partial full length sizing to include bumping the shoulder a hair, even if you only keep it at where it was when fired the first couple of times, which is short of filling the chamber. If you do not, you will end up having to FL size at some time just like neck sizing only.

I adjust the sizer to bump the shoulder .001 or .002 at the most when trying for the most accuracy in standard chamber guns. I like to do .002 to .003 for hunting rounds.

 

[cheygriz]

^^^^

+1

 

[flashhole]

The last few posts are the reason I asked the question. What one person calls partial FL sizing can be different fron what someone else will call it .... and what results they expect.

 

[243winxb]

After I fire that brass in my new '06, is it fair to say I only need to neck size the case and maybe FLS every 3 or 4 loadings? Yes. Can my full length sizer accomplish this or do I need to get another neck sizing die? You need to buy a neck die if you dont want to touch the body.

Standard dies-Both FL & Neck work the neck area the same when using an expander. Case life is the same, as necks seem to split first. For best accuracy, using standard dies,partial full length sizing works best using Walkalong's method. Bushing dies work even better, as they don't need to use an expander. Lee collet works too.

 

[Walkalong]

What one person calls partial FL sizing can be different fron what someone else will call it .

Yep, just how much "partial" are they sizing.

Bushing dies work even better, as they don't need to use an expander. Lee collet works too.

Yep.

I really like the Redding FL bushing type sizers (Some prefer the body die/bushing type neck die combo), but for regular shooting they are over kill IMHO.

 

[DM~]

Personally, i'd back the FL die out a couple turns, size the case and try it in the chamber "it will be used in"! If it's a no go, i'd turn the die in half turn, and try again. When the bolt "just closes" on the case, that's where i'd leave the die, FOR THAT CHAMBER.

DM