Bullseye shooting: What should I expect?

[Fred40]

I know there are a ton of variables but just trying to get a ballpark idea of what to expect. I'm a new shooter. Started in late March (shooting indoor) and have just started the outdoor league. The indoor was just some practice but now I'm being scored on the outdoor shooting. Averaged 260 my first week. I'm only shooting a .22 for now but hope to add a .45 by next summer. My goal is to hit 270 average by the end of summer league. Is that reasonable? I practice maybe once a week plus shooting league night (I'm busy with work) and maybe a little dry firing at home couple times a week.

Jumping in at 260 seemed decent but my practice time is very limited right now. What is the average time it takes to go from 260 to 270?....I know everyone is different.....but there must be an average.

 

[dafitch]

Hi Fred,
I got serious with bullseye about a year ago. First month of scores were mid 600's. Barely spent any time at all in the 700s, and started shoot low 820's consistantly about 3 months after starting. I'm shooting high 840's into the 850's now, and have been since the beginning of summer. It's a slow climb from 820 to 860, but I guess it's really not a race.

For what it's worth, I practice once a week- one 90 shot match, either .22 or .45. Probably make about 3 sanctioned matches a year. I'm classified as expert, however, I'm certainly not an expert when it comes to how things should be done.

My problem is that I like too many shooting sports. Some weeks it's shotguns, next week it's rifles- can't make up my mind!

Maybe cdrt or some of the guys shooting master and high master scores will chime in.

 

[retiredsgt]

Bullseye

Bullseye has been described as the Queen of the handgun shooting sports. Once you get the fundalmentals down, you have to get you head on straight. In fact it is about 20 % fundalmentals and 80 % between your ears. It may take a while to move you average up 5 to 10 points, but keep at it. Remember when you are shooting, you should be thinking about NOTHING, except, that front sight. A number of times, I'll be at the line, revolver in hand and hearing the "Is the Line Loaded?" , and I think about having to cut the lawn the next day. Well, I have already lost it. The only thing in your mind should be that front sight, or in my case, the red dot of my Ultra Dots.
Remember, you can do a good amount of practice by "dry-firing" at home.(Make doubly sure the gun is UNLOADED).
Keep at it and Good Shooting.
(I have been at it since 1982, and I shoot .22,.38 and .45 revolvers.)

 

[poet]

I originally started as a Bullseye shooter and still enjoy the slow deliberate shot. Most matches that I took part in were 2700 matches. I was practicing 4 times a week, 50 quality shots each practice session. The make or break part of the match has always been the 50 yard slow fire. Good luck, enjoy the sport, it will really help you when you try the other disciplines.

 

[Fred40]

Yeah this bullseye shooting is a ton of fun, I really enjoy it. That being said it's not my only hobby and I still have work and kids taking up much of my time. So I'm trying to reach expert on very little time to dedicate to it. Still think I can do it though. Reaching master is not even on my radar and neither is camp Perry (though I suppose it would be a hell of an experience to do once....that and the World Series of Poker...lol).

 

[retiredsgt]

Bullseye

I have been fortunate to have shot at Camp Perry three times. ('90,'92, and '07). The amazing thing about it is that there is ALWAYS a Great deal of Sun and a Greater Deal of Wind! And if a storm comes off of the Lake, you WILL get Wet. It is probably one of the Most difficult places in the country to shoot. But............. You do meet a lot of knowledgable and great shooters. Quite an experience. Well worth the effort.
Good luck and Good Shooting!

 

[cdrt]

Fred40

Just got back from the Texas State Pistol match in Austin, where I learned a couple of things, that may or may not apply to your question.

1) I'm getting older and 100 degree days do take their toll, especially when you get to the .45 match at about 1:00 in the afternoon. I shot a 94-4x on the first string and an 83-1x on the second. I could feel the transition from being "up" to "really tired".

2) I still need to learn to trust the gun, especially my .45. If I put it up there, get a decent sight picture and maintain constant pressure on the trigger without spending too much time, I'll get a x, 10 or 9. If I hold it too long, it turns into an 8 or 7.

3) I've stopped looking at my 50 yard target after the first or second shot if they are where they're supposed to be. I blew a nice target at the Dallas Regional after about the fifth 10 because I started thinking about it too much and was pushing to get the shot in the same place.

4) I'm going to be spending more time at the range practicing slow fire, getting back to lifting some weights, and spending more time outside in this heat to get used to it (either walking or some other exercise). I shot about 100 points below my average, so I have some work to do to get ready for the Regional in Wichita Falls in September. Rumor has it Gunny Zins might fly down for the match.

And for those of you who know him, Dave Howland came in third in Austin. Chuck Holt from Colorado won the match with a 2603.

 

[243winxb]

http://bullseyepistol.com/ This is a good site to learn some tips. Mind set, equipment, physical fitness, all come into play. But what it really all comes down to in the end is 2 things. Sight alignment and trigger control, with trigger control being most important. I have seen people learning to shoot using a special rig. The machine pulls the trigger for you, all you do is get the correct sight alignment. When the test is compared to how you pull the trigger, it always comes down to trigger control. Of couse the machine does it better every time.

 

[lil ski]

260 is a fantastic starting average. I have not shot outdoors to much so I can't be much help there. Indoors going up 10 points in your average may take some time even with practice. If I'm not mistaken a 260 average is a sharpshooter classification and 270 is a expert.

Starting out with a 22 is a good thing going to a 45 may be a little more trouble. I wouldn't be suprised if your 45 scores are 10 to 20 points lower to start. It seems to take a lot more time to learn to shoot the 45 with the same level of success as the 22. Welcome to the bullseye side of shooting and goodd luck.

 

[Fred40]

260 is a fantastic starting average. I have not shot outdoors to much so I can't be much help there. Indoors going up 10 points in your average may take some time even with practice. If I'm not mistaken a 260 average is a sharpshooter classification and 270 is a expert.

Starting out with a 22 is a good thing going to a 45 may be a little more trouble. I wouldn't be suprised if your 45 scores are 10 to 20 points lower to start. It seems to take a lot more time to learn to shoot the 45 with the same level of success as the 22. Welcome to the bullseye side of shooting and goodd luck.

Thanks. I'm tough on myself and will not be happy until I can keep them all in the black. 270 is Expert and that's what I'm gunning for . The biggest difference I can see between the .22 and the .45 is the trigger poundage.....(well that and learning to get back on target in rapid fire because of the additional recoil). The .45 is 3.5lbs Vs. the .22 at 2lbs. But.....the .45 makes much bigger holes which I would think could be an advantage since if the hole even clips the line it's given the higher score. Once you get the trigger down (and that is probably saying a lot) the .45 should have an advantage at 50 yards.

 

[cdrt]

You'll find that sometimes you can actually shoot a better score with the .45 than you have with your .22. I've done it with my 1911 .38 Special and the other day, I shot within 5 points of my .22 score with the .45. And yes, the 50 yard slow fire scores helped me do that.

 

[lil ski]

Thats a great place to start keeping all your shots in the black. You know I thought that shooting a 45 would give me higher scores because of the bigger hole. It worked in slow fire but the recoil in timed and rapid (mostly rapid) brought my scores down. I shoot about 6 points lower with my 45 than my 22 (280-274) again I only shoot indoors. Good Luck and remember in the black only!!

 

[Fred40]

Where to purchase a good wad (1911) gun?

Not sure I really want to spend ~$2000 on a RRA or Les Baer. But I also don't want to handicap myself by getting an off the shelf 1911 that shoots 6-8" groups at 50 yards. Is there a good place to find used ones? The prices I've seen on gunbroker have me leaning back towards a brand new RRA. I'd prefer to be closer to $1000. I've looked at the Dan Wesson Pointman Seven....looks like a nice gun for the price but it is not really set up for bullseye. It would still need trigger work at minimum. Plus would just sticking a lighter spring in it make it shoot 185 grain more reliably?

 

[dfugate]

I went with a Springfield 1911 Mil Spec Model, not the GI Model at the bottom of the line, the next one up. Some dealers will confuse you, the Model Mil Spec has a rounded off ejection port and all of the updates to the 1911 to date, and the base model does not. This gun was recommended to me to start building and it will save some money with the updates. Get some sights installed and a trigger job, the fac barrel shoot pretty good groups out of the box, you can get a match barrel later after you shoot out the fac one practicing. It will save you tons considering a Les Baer is hardball gun is around 1500.

 

[lil ski]

I also shoot a Springfield (Trophy Match) I love it. You can start out with the mil spec there a great frame to built from or go Trophy Match either way when your done you will have the same amount of money in them. It's do you want to spend it all at once or spend it in steps.

 

[bdutton]

I know a pretty good smith that can build a gun for about $1400-$1500. PM for info.

 

[Fred40]

I found a very minty looking Springfield Trophy Match for $1000. Is that a good price? Just how accurate is a Trophy Match at 50 yards? How much would a trigger job run me?

 

[lil ski]

Like I have said I love my Trophy Match. The only things I have done to mine are a triger job ($50) and bought a few different springs (11, 12, 13 and 14 pounds) I think. Different loads need different springs. I also had mine drilled and taped for a scope rail. I'm a indoor shooter so I can't speek for groups at 50 yards but at 50' off a rest my groups are under 1 inch. I think I have about $1400 in my total.

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

Aw right now! The beginner doesn't need a built BE 1911

I'm shooting a pretty much stock Kimber Stainless II.. Purchased from a THR member for $625 to the door!

I have refined the round to be shot. 4.1gns of Bullseye pushing an H&G 68.

I have hand fitted a match bushing to remove some barrel slide slop.

I have tinkered with main spring and recoil spring to award me with a 3.6 pound smooth trigger pull with a toothpaste trigger job.

I removed the standard non-adjustable sights from the Kimber and installed a set of adjustable Dawson Precision target sights.

No professional work has been done to my iron sighted 1911.

Without a scope/reddot mounted, (yeah, I did some Ransom rest testing), it is very capable of holding 10 ring at 50yds. If you're only shooting Marksman or Sharpshooter, this is all you need until you get better. Will you shoot better with a Les Baer? Maybe, but a beginning shooter doesn't need to spend big bucks on a built gun for even a couple years of very satisfying shooting BE.

What am I shooting for scores now that I've started to shoot some outdoor? I'm shooting at the upper end of Expert indoor with rimfire, (worked Ruger MKII's). I'm shooting at the upper end of SharpShooter with 1911/45 and foresee no problem making Expert later this year or next spring.

Keep this in mind before you shell out more than a grand for a good 1911.

I will buy another, a better one, but keep this Kimber as a backup gun.

-Steve

 

[dfugate]

Just depends on where he is going to shoot, Kimbers are not CMP leg match legal.

 

[cdrt]

Jack and dfugate both bring up good points. If you're only only to have one .45 1911 for a while and want to shoot all the matches offered, you'll need a hardball gun for the CMP EIC matches that can double as a wad gun.

If that's the case, you could go with either a Springfield 1911A1 that has been set up for EIC matches; Bo-mar sights, trigger job, front strap stipling, etc. Or you could get a legal Gold Cup National Match, either Series 70 or 80 but not the enhanced one, since it is still not CMP legal.

Some will say you are limiting yourself by not shooting a red dot, but I've always believed that it is important to learn the basics with iron sights than just starting out with a red dot.

And, as I've mentioned before, we have one shooter in Wichita Falls, that made Master with an iron sight Ruger and his EIC hardball gun. He legged out in less than 2 years for Distinguished and just got around to buying a dedicated wad gun. Can't wait to see what his .45 scores are like with the new gun.

I checked Gunbroker and there are several Gold Cups on there that are reasonably priced.

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

And that's a great idea.

A series 70 Colt Gold Cup National Match!!!

Two recoil springs. One light for the BE match loads. One heavier for Ball ammo.

Two main springs. 3.5 pound trigger and 4.2 pound trigger.

Learn to shoot with iron sights while your vision is still capable of allowing so.

If ya gotta do it with one gun, that'll do in a pinch.

I didn't buy my Kimber to shoot leg matches with. Although I'm hearing grumblings that it is legal to have slide sarations now, but my trigger is too light and I'd have to remove the FLGR. I bought it for NRA Bullseye as a wad gun. I do not have it tuned as a ball gun.

To shoot leg matches, I've been supporting the program by shooting other people's guns and ammo so that someone else may earn points!


Side note... My primary rimfire gun has a dot. I can't quite break 95% with it indoor. My secondary rimfire gun is iron sighted. My 1911/45 is iron sighted. I hadn't been to the range in 3 weeks, since the last match I shot in Tacoma. The other day I had time for... Four targets. At 50yds, a tripplet of 92's SF from each of the rimfire guns and the Kimber. A 94 for a RF from the Kimber at 25yds.

I wish I had more time to practice in the spring... I just don't. I know I can shoot better.

-Steve

 

[cdrt]

Learn to shoot with iron sights while your vision is still capable of allowing so.

I'll be 60 in October...still shooting iron sights. Just can't handle the dot thing.

The alternative on the Gold Cup is to use a heavier spring for hardball but leave the trigger pull at just over 4 pounds. It's easier to change out a recoil spring than it is the sear spring. When I was using my Gold Cup for Leg matches, I used an 18.5 lb spring. For regular matches, I put the 10 pound spring back in.

 

[dfugate]

If purchasing the 1911 A1 Springfield Mil-Spec Model, aside from the sites, trigger, and match barrel, what is a laundry list of improvements to make to the pistol to be leg match competitive? I am building mine also. As I am new, dont want to miss anything or spend too much, I also shoot high power, funds are limited.

 

[cdrt]

Aside from sights, trigger job, and match barrel, the basics would be a fitted bushing, stippling or checkering on the front strap, a checkered mainspring housing, better trigger (short or long depending on what you like), correct barrel link for proper lock-up, and that's about all I can think of right now. All those improvements should be basic for any gunsmith who has worked on Leg guns.