Bush supports gun rights..........Debate Thread
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one45auto
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Were you listening to Kerry's comments on this issue at all?!? Did you hear his views?? Both candidates are going to say they favor a renewal, it would be political suicide not to. However Bush didn't push the issue, whereas Kerry has just said that even if there are not enough votes to pass a renewal he'll "fight" like Clinton did. You know what that means, don't you? It means he's going to arm-twist, blackmail, and bully every opposing senator until he gets it passed. Is that what you want? Let's be realistic, neither candidate is exactly pro-gun yet Bush is the first president since Reagan who has endorsed gun ownership via his administration. His Attorney General supports it. You can bet your backside that Kerry won't, nor will his appointees.
But no, you go right ahead and bash Bush. You go ahead and vote for Kerry. But don't expect to have much credibility when you're here on these forums whining about some new AWB or gun law should Kerry win the election.
But no, you go right ahead and bash Bush. You go ahead and vote for Kerry. But don't expect to have much credibility when you're here on these forums whining about some new AWB or gun law should Kerry win the election.
insidious_calm
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Like I said...
...actions still speak louder than words. Bush signed Concealed Carry in TX. What did Kerry do? He signed the original AWB. I think I'd rather have Bush for four more.
I.C.
...actions still speak louder than words. Bush signed Concealed Carry in TX. What did Kerry do? He signed the original AWB. I think I'd rather have Bush for four more.
I.C.
The critical point is, who gets to nominate the next supreme court justices.
Bush will appoint constructionalist judges, who will support the 2nd amendment. Kerry will appoint activist judges, who will rule against the RKBA. This is far more important than any AWB.
Bush will appoint constructionalist judges, who will support the 2nd amendment. Kerry will appoint activist judges, who will rule against the RKBA. This is far more important than any AWB.
insidious_calm
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AMEN!
What Rebar said.
I.C.
What Rebar said.
I.C.
tlhelmer
Member
The Democrats are so much better at allowing their candidates to compete in the arena of undecided voters. They allow their candidate to say things that they know he doesnt mean and still support him.
I believe that Bush supports the 2nd amendment. He did not push the AWB which allowed him to say he would sign the bill if it made it to his desk. He knew it wouldnt make it there. You dont have to vote for Bush because of what he said about the AWB. It did not pass and it did expire.
do you want a President John F. Kerry then just dont vote for Bush. They can still enact another AWB if he wins and pushes for the AWB.
I believe that Bush supports the 2nd amendment. He did not push the AWB which allowed him to say he would sign the bill if it made it to his desk. He knew it wouldnt make it there. You dont have to vote for Bush because of what he said about the AWB. It did not pass and it did expire.
do you want a President John F. Kerry then just dont vote for Bush. They can still enact another AWB if he wins and pushes for the AWB.
cslinger
Member
ScottMKIV,
The reality is that either a Democrat or a republican is going to be president end of story. Bush has a record of pro-gun actions. Kerry has a record of anti-gun stances.
Kerry is much worse for gun owners than Bush.
Hell I really don't like either of them all that much but Bush is way better than Kerry on many issues and has a solid cabinet.
As much as I would like to see a third party win, if for no other reason then to shake the system up, it's not going to happen and I will not throw my vote away on an election this close.
I do firmly respect you for voting however you see fit. Hell I respect anybody who takes the time these days to actually vote.
Chris
The reality is that either a Democrat or a republican is going to be president end of story. Bush has a record of pro-gun actions. Kerry has a record of anti-gun stances.
Kerry is much worse for gun owners than Bush.
Hell I really don't like either of them all that much but Bush is way better than Kerry on many issues and has a solid cabinet.
As much as I would like to see a third party win, if for no other reason then to shake the system up, it's not going to happen and I will not throw my vote away on an election this close.
I do firmly respect you for voting however you see fit. Hell I respect anybody who takes the time these days to actually vote.
Chris
Marshall
Member
Bottom line is, if Kerry was President over this last year, there would have been a vote on this issue and there would have been a huge push to keep the ban! Under Bush, there wasn't a vote. Actions speak louder than words.
P12
Member
Ditto.
Bush did a good job of side-stepping the issue.
But what counts is there was NO push. Unlike Clinton. Unlike Kerry.
I really think Bush's statement during the 2000 election was a shot across the bow. A warning shot for gun owners to get off their duffs and do something.
Guess what, it worked.
There is no doubt in my mind that Bush is better on guns. That being said, he is no where near acceptable to me. It continually amazes me that Bush gets so much support around here. If he follows through with what he said, there will be no more private sales in the country. In my mind, this would arguably make him the most anti-gun president ever.
This is my whole point. Bush is calling for new restrictions on guns. He isn't leaving the issue alone.
ETA: Here is his quote about it "I believe in background checks at gun shows or anywhere to make sure that guns don't get in the hands of people that shouldn't have them."
There you have it. He believes in background checks on every single gun sold in the country. No more private sales.
ETA: Here is his quote about it "I believe in background checks at gun shows or anywhere to make sure that guns don't get in the hands of people that shouldn't have them."
There you have it. He believes in background checks on every single gun sold in the country. No more private sales.
Shanghai McCoy
Member
A couple of companion campain sloguns have come to mind:
VOTE FOR BUSH (he could be worse)...
VOTE FOR KERRY (he WILL be worse)...
VOTE FOR BUSH (he could be worse)...
VOTE FOR KERRY (he WILL be worse)...
What is it the dwarf said in Lord of the Rings II?
"Small chance of victory? Or certain destruction? What are we waiting for!"
You are ALL forgetting the huge victory Bush's administration won for us in the early days of his Presidency. Remember the UN Council on Small Arms?
The UN wanted to adopt a resolution registering them or banning them. The (new) US delegate utterly refused, and the result was a very watered down resolution that just deplored gun violence. Had they passed the registration/ban language, it would've been a huge tool for the antis and liberals.
And of course, the Ashcroft/2A is an individual right thing.
Neither would have happened in a Gore Presidency.
The current choice is equally clear to me.
I personally think Bush only took his AWB position to try to reach moderates (a mistake in my eyes) knowing full well he would never have to sign it.
"Small chance of victory? Or certain destruction? What are we waiting for!"
You are ALL forgetting the huge victory Bush's administration won for us in the early days of his Presidency. Remember the UN Council on Small Arms?
The UN wanted to adopt a resolution registering them or banning them. The (new) US delegate utterly refused, and the result was a very watered down resolution that just deplored gun violence. Had they passed the registration/ban language, it would've been a huge tool for the antis and liberals.
And of course, the Ashcroft/2A is an individual right thing.
Neither would have happened in a Gore Presidency.
The current choice is equally clear to me.
I personally think Bush only took his AWB position to try to reach moderates (a mistake in my eyes) knowing full well he would never have to sign it.
RavenVT100
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Look, there's no doubt in my mind that Bush probably has next to no idea about *** the AWB really covers. Kerry does, because he signed it.
Let's stop looking at what the candidates have said during a debate and review what they've done while in politics. For me, the choice is clear when it comes to the gun issue.
blackdragon
Member
Kerry does (know what the AWB covers), because he signed it.???
He stated that a drug dealer had an ak47, and that is why we need the AWB
1. I bought 2 ak47s during the ban...because it didn't cover them.
2. A drug dealer is a criminal, and can't buy guns anyways.
So...does Kerry actually know the bill (and laws), and lied, or did he simply not read it, and vote anti-gun because that is his, and his party's line?
Both options show he does not deserve his senate seat, or the presidential one.
(btw: in debate2, he also lied/errored on why he never voted on the partial abortion and child abortion notification bills).
Keith
He stated that a drug dealer had an ak47, and that is why we need the AWB
1. I bought 2 ak47s during the ban...because it didn't cover them.
2. A drug dealer is a criminal, and can't buy guns anyways.
So...does Kerry actually know the bill (and laws), and lied, or did he simply not read it, and vote anti-gun because that is his, and his party's line?
Both options show he does not deserve his senate seat, or the presidential one.
(btw: in debate2, he also lied/errored on why he never voted on the partial abortion and child abortion notification bills).
Keith
bigmtnman
Member
Typical politicians. 
If at first you don't succeed, SUCK HARDER!
If at first you don't succeed, SUCK HARDER!RavenVT100
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If they weren't automatic, they weren't true AK-47s. Or you have an FFA permit.
He knows the AWB, he lied, and he wants to scare people into supporting a ban on "assault weapons," only the new AWB will most likely cover far more than the old AWB covered.
There's a very good chance you'll say goodbye to your ARs, for instance, if a new AWB shows up.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
The lesser of two evils is still evil. I'm voting for Badnarik.
I've said this in the other thread and I believe it's important enough to repeat here:
Bush never mentioned a word about a gun show, he simply stated "i support background checks". I don't see that being such a horrible statement. As for the AWB it was obvious to me from his answer that he really doesn't support it. Couldn't you see the look on his face when he said "the bill wasn't going to move.....Republicans AND Democrats didn't want it". At that point it was obvious where he stood, but he couldn't outright say it or it would have given ammo to Kerry. The President basically believes that us gun owners are smart enough to read in between the lines unlike the illogical blissninnies. The fact remains that he was the Pres for the past four years and there is no longer an AWB. I for one am not complaining about his methods.
Bush never mentioned a word about a gun show, he simply stated "i support background checks". I don't see that being such a horrible statement. As for the AWB it was obvious to me from his answer that he really doesn't support it. Couldn't you see the look on his face when he said "the bill wasn't going to move.....Republicans AND Democrats didn't want it". At that point it was obvious where he stood, but he couldn't outright say it or it would have given ammo to Kerry. The President basically believes that us gun owners are smart enough to read in between the lines unlike the illogical blissninnies. The fact remains that he was the Pres for the past four years and there is no longer an AWB. I for one am not complaining about his methods.
GrayBear
Member
Bush - Kerry
There are many people on several sites making a lot of President Bush's statement he'd sign the AWB if it were passed and sent to him, so he's "anti-gun."
Isn't that what he's supposed to do? This is a republic, or at least what's left of one. We elect Legislators to pass our laws. If any bill comes to any President, that's what he's supposed to do. The people elected the House and Senate, so it must be the people's voice, right? Maybe we've been electing the wrong Legislators, not the wrong President?
As for Bush being on "our" side, look at the record. I know for a fact he really is a hunter, at least for dove and quail. My dad used to lease game bird hunting rights for so many days a year on a ranch in South Texas and the Bushes' were co-leasors and actively hunted.
Bush's state administration brought CCW to Texas plus decent self-defense and property defense laws after Ann Richards vetoed it. I believe it was part of his platform, but I could be corrected on that..
The Bush administration directed the justice department to, basically, consider the 2nd amendment to apply to individuals. BTW, several cases were dropped.
On the AWB, Bush's people did not make a single phone call, write a single memo or "leak" a single anti-gun hint to any Congress Critter to support the AWB. This royally ticked off the pro-control crowd. Brady took out an ad blasting him for it. Of course, his statement that he'd sign it if it passed kept them from really blaming him directly. Just good old-fashioned Texas politics!
Hey, he's so much more on our side than Kerry is that I, for one, can't believe it when people state the opposite! I want to be aware of what people say but I'll be be more influenced by what they actually have done!
GrayBear
There are many people on several sites making a lot of President Bush's statement he'd sign the AWB if it were passed and sent to him, so he's "anti-gun."
Isn't that what he's supposed to do? This is a republic, or at least what's left of one. We elect Legislators to pass our laws. If any bill comes to any President, that's what he's supposed to do. The people elected the House and Senate, so it must be the people's voice, right? Maybe we've been electing the wrong Legislators, not the wrong President?
As for Bush being on "our" side, look at the record. I know for a fact he really is a hunter, at least for dove and quail. My dad used to lease game bird hunting rights for so many days a year on a ranch in South Texas and the Bushes' were co-leasors and actively hunted.
Bush's state administration brought CCW to Texas plus decent self-defense and property defense laws after Ann Richards vetoed it. I believe it was part of his platform, but I could be corrected on that..
The Bush administration directed the justice department to, basically, consider the 2nd amendment to apply to individuals. BTW, several cases were dropped.
On the AWB, Bush's people did not make a single phone call, write a single memo or "leak" a single anti-gun hint to any Congress Critter to support the AWB. This royally ticked off the pro-control crowd. Brady took out an ad blasting him for it. Of course, his statement that he'd sign it if it passed kept them from really blaming him directly. Just good old-fashioned Texas politics!
Hey, he's so much more on our side than Kerry is that I, for one, can't believe it when people state the opposite! I want to be aware of what people say but I'll be be more influenced by what they actually have done!
GrayBear
Thumper
Member
Bush signed Texas' CHL law? Hell, he actively campaigned for it.
Important distinction.
Important distinction.
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