Buy American?

[henschman]

I think it is a fallacy to refuse to do business with people from other countries because of the policies of their government. Most of those "Chi Com" workers probably don't give a damn about communism or capitalism or any of that... they are just trying to do the best they can to survive, like most people do everywhere. You know, I don't agree with much of anything that my country's government does either. What if some foreigner decided not to buy products from me because he was opposed to the US government engaging in redistribution of wealth, inflationary monetary policy, prohibition, protectionist trade policies, and an interventionist foreign policy? Would it make sense to refuse to do business with me even if I may be against all of that stuff?

I know our society is really big on teaching folks to "collectivize" other people and think of them in terms of groups rather than as individuals, but don't buy into it. It is the creed of the looter, the moocher, and the thug.

The most humanitarian way of doing business is to buy from whoever best meets your needs and provides the most benefit to you. If everyone does this, it incentivizes everyone to work harder and harder to meet each other's needs and to create the most benefit for those with whom they do business. That is why generally the countries with the most economic freedom have the most widespread prosperity.

BTW, I am glad my dad forced me to engage in "child labor" when I was growing up. I am glad that he taught me how to work for a living, and that a little "sweat" isn't anything to be afraid of. When I look at how the kids nowadays turn out after having been raised without any of that, it is pretty clear to me which is the better way.

 

[Mike1234567]

I've been limiting my pistol purchases to S&W, Ruger, Kel-Tec, and Hi-Point. This isn't only because they're all American made by American companies. There are many factors which influenced my decisions. I have a few American made long guns too... mostly Marlin.

The above stated, I do have several Russian-made long guns.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The most humanitarian way of doing business is to buy from whoever best meets your needs and provides the most benefit to you.

I agree wholeheartedly. Where my opinion often differs from others, however, is the "most benefit to you" part. Most seem to feel it is the product with the lowest cost that still performs. As I said before, this is a short-sighted viewpoint, because you're really doing yourself a disservice in the long run.

When the large-scale decision to buy cheap imported goods puts American workers out of jobs, it affects everyone. Not today, not tomorrow, but years down the road, when it's really too late to do anything about the money we sent over our borders.

I think it is a fallacy to refuse to do business with people from other countries because of the policies of their government.

Depends on what aspect you're talking about. I don't avoid chinese products because of some personal ethical view regarding their labor/living conditions, or because of their system of government. I avoid chinese goods because they are 1) inferior and 2) financially supporting a country that is our sworn enemy. Unfortunately, it's virtually impossible to never buy chinese products these days.

I always look for US, but when that option is not available, I look for a label that comes from a friendly nation, such as Taiwan. The quality may be no better than Chicom and it's still sending money out of country, but at least I'm not supporting an enemy.

My order of preference for product origin is:

1: USA
2: North American
3: Italian
4: Other Western European nations
5: Taiwanese or friendly South American Nations
6: Other non-communist Asian nations (such as South Korea)

 

[Mike1234567]

(partial quote) If "buy American" matters, then why not "buy Virginian," or "buy Hampton Roads"? After all, if the idea is to keep from losing jobs, what better place to start than right there at home?

As a metter of fact, I do buy as locally as I'm able. I wait to fill up my car or shop for anything until I'm closest to my home because I want my closest neighbors employed and closest businesses to remain for my benefit.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

Looking at the issue on a country by country level is much too broad a brush. There are US companies with abysmal human rights reputations overseas that I would never support. A company by company view is more appropriate. Not all US based companies are good, not all companies based in China are bad. I buy food locally, electronics as infrequently as possibel, and firearms related stuff from as respectable source as I can. It is nearly impossible to know every company associated with every product during each stage of the production process.

 

[X-Rap]

I don't look at it so much as what company as to what country. The market will punish a company but it is much more difficult against a country.
I use China because they are so blatant. They reverse engineer and steal the design/secrets of what products are made there, they have little or no regard for human rights, environment, and are our enemy and support and sell weapons and technology to others that are our enemy.
They are on a very high trajectory and to think otherwise is foolish. In the 80's and 90's I saw tons of what here was obsolete mining and milling equipment shipped to China, they have taken that obsolete equipment and created an industrial machine that rivals or exceeds any in history. In 40 yrs they have gone from an agrarian society to sadly the top superpower. Today they use coal power plants designed and engineered in the US to fire their industry and sell us junk solar and wind machines.
There are some countries that may well be in some grey area as to friend or foe but China is not one of them.

 

[JustinJ]

Today they use coal power plants designed and engineered in the US to fire their industry and sell us junk solar and wind machines.
There are some countries that may well be in some grey area as to friend or foe but China is not one of them.

Because they are succesfully competing with us economically that makes them our enemy? Yeah, China is not great on civil rights but when has that kept us out of bed with a country?

 

[X-Rap]

No they are our enemy because the last two wars we were in they either participated or supplied our enemy and I suspect that the same is being done today. I didn't think it was a secret that China was an enemy of this country and our allies. Take a look at some of the reports from the pentagon on who we expect to have to fight in the next 10 or 20 yrs and China is at the top of the list.

 

[Mike1234567]

Let's see... How long ago was the good ol' U S of A guilty of civil rights abuse?

 

[henschman]

When I buy new firearms in the US, there is an excise tax that is paid to the US Federal Government. I consider the US federal government to be the number one threat to my liberty. When you buy Chinese goods I'm sure some of that money ends up going to their communist government, but at least it isn't directly used to oppress me, like it is when I pay money to the US government.

I prefer to buy guns from private sellers so I don't have to pay taxes on them, all the money goes to a private individual who is dealing with me through voluntary exchange rather than force, and I don't have to suffer the insult of being required to get the "OK" of some bureaucrat (in the form of a background check) in order to exercise my natural rights to contract and free association. I buy from FFLs when I have to in order to get a good deal, or if they are the only one who has something I want, but all the best deals I've gotten have been from private sellers.

Where the gun came from and what the personal story is of each of the individuals who had a hand in its production/importation is not really a concern of mine. All I care about is how much benefit I will get from it and how much it will cost me.

I believe firmly in the maxim that a penny saved is a penny earned. If people in this country are able to save money by buying cheap foreign goods, then it is the same as everyone in this country getting a pay raise. Sure there are a few people in one narrow sector of the economy that will make less money because of it, but everyone else in the entire economy benefits from it.

If every country (or every individual) produces what they can produce most efficiently, and trades with others for everything else they need, it benefits everyone. In the field of Economics it is called the Law of Comparative Advantage. It is also the reason why there is no conflict of interest among rational, productive men, and why capitalism is the most humanitarian economic system.

 

[speedway]

I buy used 99.99 percent of the time and I don't buy junk.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

I give whether or not a gun is "American-made" about as much consideration as brand of toilet paper when I'm running to the toilet in an emergency. I'm an anarcho-capitalist... competition is the key to getting me and others exactly what they want. I also hold no higher loyalty to our government or economy than those of other nations. My loyalty is in other ways.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Ringolevio noted...

And I don't care how cheap, practical or efficient an AK-47 is, I will never own one. Countries and entities that are hostile to the U.S. and its values put the AK-47 on their flags, for Pete's sake!

You got this bit of information from an American textbook, yes? Wow.

The only country with the AK47 on its flag is Mozambique. Mozambique is NOT considered hostile to the US and in fact, relations are good.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/7035.htm#relations

 

[doubleh]

After reading these three pages of comments on "buy America" I really don't see any hope of pulling out of the mess we are slipping deeper into every day. Drastic changes are going to have to be made to have any hope of restoring America to anything resembling her former greatness and I just don't see the commitment to do so expressed by many in their posts.

 

[Mike1234567]

^^^ Not going to happen until our economy regresses to third world status and we, the people, are forced to work for nearly nothing... live in shanty towns and eat out of trash cans. Personally, I'm working towards complete self-efficiency so I don't need to worry about that.

 

[Fishslayer]

So - What do you say? Buy American?

EDIT: OK. Got it... I think... still

I won't buy a G**** because they do nothing for me. I won't buy the Sigma or M&P for the same reason. Besides, handguns are supposed to have hammers.

Where a gun is made is not at the top of the list of what I'm looking for when making a purchase. That I own more Ruger & S&W just means that they suited the purpose best.
If I had to chose between the Norinco SKS & the Ruger Mini-30, the Mini would go. It's simply the inferior weapon as far as accuracy & reliability go. Heck of a lot cheaper, too.

 

[Sky]

If we as a country competed in the world economy as described above then you would not have to worry about where something came from because it would once again be stamped " Made in America".

Wish I had one of those wavy flag things I could post!!! hahahah

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Is there a meaning behind the guns in your post Sky? I went over my head if there was.

I buy American. My Nissans were built in Canton, MS. I think the Glocks are made in Georgia. And the Sigs are made somewhere up north. Presumably by Americans.

SIGs are made in the great state of NH!

I noticed several names mentioned as examples of American gun manufacturers, but the one that was conspicuous in its absence was Colt; whatsamatta, is Colt a four-letter word?

You can call me jingoistic, but I prefer American iron in my garage and in my holster. If you're gonna be American you should make every effort to buy American.

I'm aware of all the rationalizations for buying foreign-branded stuff ("they have factories here" etc.). But as a lifelong American and a lifelong believer that America still is the greatest country ever (and feeling not one iota of shame over that), I get great satisfaction out of owning American-made products even if a foreign-branded product is ostensibly superior, or cheaper.

And anyway, price is only one component of value.

"American-made" is always my first choice. After that comes stuff made in countries that are America's allies or are at least friendly to us. That puts anything made in Red China (Yes, I still call it Red China because it's still run by the ChiComs) 'way down the list.

And I don't care how cheap, practical or efficient an AK-47 is, I will never own one. Countries and entities that are hostile to the U.S. and its values put the AK-47 on their flags, for Pete's sake!

So I'm not American because I'm wearing a Croatian made pistol in a holster made in Paraguay?

Any new gun from China is a simple shotgun now, any "AK-47s" (Mak 90) that you see have been in this country for nearly 20 years. Only ONE country has put the AK 47 on their flag and thats Mozambique.

But you know what? You're right, we should put those nice folks who work at Springfield Armory importing guns out on the streets because of their foreign made guns. Same with SIG, HK, Glock, Taurus, etc. all because they either import foreign made guns our because they are linked to foreign companies. Are you gonna be the one to tell those near 500 employees at SIG that they aren't real Americans? What about all those champion skeet shooters using Italian shotguns? They must not be American either. What about the gas you fill your car with? That's foreign too, I guess you aren't a real American either since you don't make your own gas with the excess grease made in America by fast food joints. Everytime you fill up your car, you support the Middle East!

 

[Sky]

Is there a meaning behind the guns in your post Sky?

Yes there is....This is a gun forum and if you write something that does not have anything to do with guns either the thread gets closed or what you write will be (used to be) deleted. I was trying to pacify/cheat the rules to get the message out. Technically I fulfilled the letter of the law of the forum but probably not as it was originally intended. I am grateful for the opportunity and do not regret the post or it's contents.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Yes there is....This is a gun forum and if you write something that does not have anything to do with guns either the thread gets closed or what you write will be (used to be) deleted. I was trying to pacify/cheat the rules to get the message out. Technically I fulfilled the letter of the law of the forum but probably not as it was originally intended. I am grateful for the opportunity and do not regret the post or it's contents.

Oh I gotcha, I thought it was relating the different things to a trend with the gun world.

 

[wacki]

I buy whatever suits my needs the best. There are some things American companies do best, and there are some things they don't. If I am looking at two firearms similar in features and price, one American made and one not, then certainly I would choose the American made one.

This is the right answer for the long term. Anyone that has studied economics and especially economic history knows this. Trade makes the size of the economic pie as a whole larger which is good for everyone. Buying locally just to buy locally reduces competition and makes everyone worse off in the long term. Pick up a book called "Basic Economics: A citizen's guide to the economy" which is written by Stanford professor Thomas Sowell. It's available as an audiobook via audible.com. There are well over a thousand economists (not picking that number out of a hat btw) that believed the protectionist Smoot Halley tarifs were partially responsible for the severity of the great depression.

Long story short, I agree S&W and Ruger are great companies and I own guns from both. But never feel guilty about buying whatever you think is best for you. It may sound counterintutive but being selfish with your purchases is the best thing for the economy as a whole.

 

[Fishslayer]

Grrrrr....

 

[JohnBT]

"The deindustrialization of America is a national crisis."

Only because a large number of those former industrial workers do not have the skills - reading, writing, math, computer, whatever - needed to get one of the many jobs that are left that pay fairly well.

I hear it every day at work... "I used to do XYZ and make good money, why should I have to retrain, go to class, whatever?" Uh, because I just showed you your test scores and a list of the job openings and they don't match up?

The world of work has changed in the U.S. This change has been predicted since I was in college in the '60s and '70s.

John

 

[Sky]

General Electric is planning to move its 115-year-old X-ray division from Wauk, Wis., to Beijing. In addition to moving the headquarters, the company will invest $2 billion in China and train more than 65 engineers and create six research centers. This is the same GE that made $5.1 billion in the United States last year but paid no taxes...The same company that employs more people overseas than it does in the united States.
So let me get this straight. President Obama appointed GE Chairman Jeff Immelt to head his commission on "job creation" (Job czar). Immelt is supposed to help create jobs. I guess the President forgot to tell him in which country he was supposed to be creating those jobs.

How many does this make? Wonder if taxes had anything to do with this decission.

No problem right?

http://news.businessweek.com/article.asp?documentKey=1376-LOUVYE1A74E901-5NJ1IVKV8LVLITS4VGNO46MQH9

 

[JHenry]

Is FN considered american now?