Buy, build, or upgrade 6.5 caliber hunter?

[Saintserious]

Ive been looking around at options for my first hunting rifle, and man there are a lot of choices. I don't have any hunting or rifle mentors to help me make a choice so all feedback will be very helpful.

I will be hunting the Adirondack Mountains so I'm looking for a fast handling, compact rifle, under 8lbs, 10 round magazine preferred, and stainless steel to handle long stays in the woods.

Regarding sight choice; Due to the denseness of the forest here I don't envision the chance of a shot past 200 yards, more than likely all Deer will be engaged within 100 yards. For these requirements in distance I feel a co-witnessed iron sight/red dot suits my needs best for quick target acquisition, in potentially low light, as well as quick follow up shots.

Caliber; Since this will be my first rifle I am concerned about .308 in a lightweight setup giving me a case of trigger flinch, but would like this rifle to maintain the ability to kill any possible Pig, Elk, Moose, or Bear it could encounter in the future. From my readings I've come to the 6.5, 7mm, and .270 as three calibers to possibly fill my needs. My reading has me leaning towards the 6.5, I realize it has a reach well beyond my current range needs but I like the idea of being able to slap on a scope in place of my red dot and be ready for longer distance Elk hunts.

Now that my rifle purpose has been laid out, let's talk rifle models. I have 4 or 5 ideas rattling around and they are as follows.

1. Savage Axis in 6.5 stainless.
-Pros:Cheap, Stainless
-Cons:No iron sights, would need MDT chassis upgrade to accept 10rd mags, non threaded barrel, poorly rated trigger.

2. Ruger American Predator in 6.5
-Pros: Cheap, medium weight barrel, threaded barrel
-Cons: No iron sights, not stainless, needs MDT chassis for 10rd mags

3. Ruger Gunsite Scout in 6.5
-Pros: iron sights, threaded barrel, forward scope rails, 10rd magazine
-Cons: Not stainless, double the initial cost of Axis or American

4.Tikka T3X CTR Stainless 6.5
-Pros: Stainless, 10rd mag, medium weight barrel
-Cons: no iron sights, most expensive option.

5. Buy a used rifle in .270 or 7mm that is potentially stainless, and has iron sights, that can be mounted into an MDT chassis and expanded to 10 round mags.

6. Your recommendations

I'd like to keep this rifle right around $1,000. Thanks everyone!

 

[someguy2800]

A chassis system and 10 round magazine would be a complete waste for a brush hunting rifle. In all my years of hunting I have never managed to need more than 2 bullets in quick succession. It will just hang out the bottom of the gun and get in the way. Since this is a first rifle and you havn't had a chance to see what you really want and need I would recommend you buy a more basic hunting rifle that you can use right out of the box and then as you shoot it and use it you can decide where your opinions lie on what you would like to add to a rifle. Or possibly if you decide you want something more tactical for fun shooting you can add a second rifle that better suits those purposes.

From my experience hunting in similar brushy close quarters conditions as you I would not try to get a gun that you can use iron sights and a scope at the same time. The only way this works is to mount the scope high enough to see under it which just ruins the gun as the scope will be too high to get any cheek weld on the stock. Just get a quality 2-7x32 scope such as a leupold VX-1 or burris fullfield. Both scopes will last an entire lifetime with no questions asked warranty's and have a huge field of view. You will be able to very quickly acquire targets at 10 feet on low power and easily shoot MOA at 200 yards on high power.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/8...-scope-2-7x-35mm-ballistic-plex-reticle-matte

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1362323063/leupold-vx-1-rifle-scope-2-7x-33mm

I would not spend my money on an Axis, they just don't do anything for me. I really don't know why anyone would want a scout rifle, the field of view on a pistol scope is terrible. I would recomend a normal Tikka T3x lite, ruger american rifle, or a weatherby vanguard. All three will shoot under 1 moa and are quality firearms. A tikka T3 would be my pick but I am biased as mine is the best gun I have ever owned or shot. If you decide later you need to have a 10 round box magazine you can address that later though I expect you will probably find it not to be necessary.

As for a cartridge I would see if you anyone you know with a rifle will let you shoot there's to get a sense of what recoil you find pleasant. A 270 is going to recoil about the same as a 308 or more. I can shoot 50 rounds of 270 or 308 in one sitting in a 7lb gun and neither bother me but for others they are on the edge of comfort. If you think recoil might be an issue for you 6.5 creedmore or 7mm-08 may be good choices.

As for finish, I have not found the need for stainless. I spend at least two full days a year hunting in the rain or snow with my Tikka T3 light and there is not a single rust pit on it. When I get home after sitting in the rain the gun gets dried off and a fresh coat of gun oil goes on. Same goes for the rest of the guns me and my family hunt with.

 

[LoonWulf]

Couple thoughts, you wont be able to use a 10rnd magazine during 95% of hunting situations, in fact even a huge pile of hogs i cant see getting more then 3-5 rounds off.
The extended mag will also hang up on brush and branches, and the mag catches can do the same.
If your looking at as a way to carry ammo, than id much prefer it in my backpack rather than attached to a gun i have to carry in my hands from time to time, or try shove thru thickets or bushes.

If you want the chassis just cause you like them no reason not to go that way, but ive carried a borrowed one for a while and i found it very uncomfortable. More so than my ar slung, as it had more sticky outty points.



I think your ruger American Predator in 6.5 to .308 would be a good starting point. Sighting options you COULD go with a dot and opens if you were so inclined, but id much prefer a 1-4 scope with an illuminated reticle if you feel the need for a lighted aiming point. It WILL weight more and be slightly slower than a dot a short range, but in my experience as fast or faster than standard "OPEN" sights.

The T3 would be an excellent choice as well, and probably closer to what you want stock.

Id probably pass on the axis, but thats just because i prefer the other guns.

 

[someguy2800]

Since I already started trying to talk you into a Tikka T3...

This is mine in 25-06 that I bought with money from pushing carts at the grocery store in high school in 2003. This was my first rifle as well. Much like you at the time I did not have any mentors to lean on for advise and the owner of the local gun shop recommended this to me when I said I wanted an accurate gun for deer and coyote hunting. After handling it and several others, this was the one for me. I could not be happier with the purchase and it has been a faithful friend in the woods for 14 years.



It the most accurate hunting rifle I have ever seen. I was just looking through some of my reloading records yesterday and found these. These are 6, 5 shot groups shot on 5 different separate range trips in 2011 with my coyote pet load. These are not cherry picked groups. This is how the gun shot taken out of the case and mixed in with shooting my other guns.



I paid $450 for it in 2003 and I would not take $4500 for it now. After sitting with it in the woods between 5 and 15 days a year hunting it is like an old friend and I will never part with it. It still shoots just as well as the day i bought it with my handloads and several different types of factory ammo.

 

[LoonWulf]

Since I already started trying to talk you into a Tikka T3...

This is mine in 25-06 that I bought with money from pushing carts at the grocery store in high school in 2003. This was my first rifle as well. Much like you at the time I did not have any mentors to lean on for advise and the owner of the local gun shop recommended this to me when I said I wanted an accurate gun for deer and coyote hunting. After handling it and several others, this was the one for me. I could not be happier with the purchase and it has been a faithful friend in the woods for 14 years.



It the most accurate hunting rifle I have ever seen. I was just looking through some of my reloading records yesterday and found these. These are 6, 5 shot groups shot on 5 different separate range trips in 2011 with my coyote pet load. These are not cherry picked groups. This is how the gun shot taken out of the case and mixed in with shooting my other guns.



I paid $450 for it in 2003 and I would not take $4500 for it now. After sitting with it in the woods between 5 and 15 days a year hunting it is like an old friend and I will never part with it. It still shoots just as well as the day i bought it with my handloads and several different types of factory ammo.

Thats when the Tikkas were right at the top of my GREAT deal list, i still think they are good buys at what they go for now.....i missed my chance on one, bought another remington instead...shoulda got the tikka....

 

[bangswitch]

Ive been looking around at options for my first hunting rifle.........

I will be hunting the Adirondack Mountains........

Regarding sight choice; Due to the denseness of the forest here I don't envision the chance of a shot past 200 yards.........

Caliber; Since this will be my first rifle I am concerned about .308 in a lightweight setup giving me a case of trigger flinch, but would like this rifle to maintain the ability to kill any possible Pig, Elk, Moose, or Bear it could encounter in the future. From my readings I've come to the 6.5, 7mm, and .270 as three calibers to possibly fill my needs. My reading has me leaning towards the 6.5, I realize it has a reach well beyond my current range needs but I like the idea of being able to slap on a scope in place of my red dot and be ready for longer distance Elk hunts.

6. Your recommendations

1st question: Which 6.5? There's 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, 6.5x54 Mannlicher, 260 Remington, 6.5 Rem Magnum, 264 Win Magnum and quite a few more. The ones with the best hitting power for the big animals will also most likely be the heaviest to tote around. You said "trigger flinch" in a lightweight .308? Caliber alone won't cure that, learn to shoot properly and you won't flinch with anything.

For the animals you mention above, I'd rather have something bigger than .264 to take one down (bear and moose in particular, but elk as well). Adult male moose can go 1000 pounds, black bear around 500 and bull elk around 750. You want something with enough energy to penetrate deep at the ranges you mention, and 160 grain is about the limit of 6.5 bullets. I'd rather be throwing something like 178 to 220 grain or more at an animal that can outrun me if I don't get a killing shot and I piss him off (black bear can run 25-30 mph). As this is your first rifle, I don't want to assume your experience level in shooting one. Personally, for the animals you mention, a 30-06 or .270 would work well. Basically the same case size, they require a long-action rifle, so both would likely be heavier than a nice .308, which would fit the bill, too.

Hitting the animal isn't enough; you need to be assured of a solid, fatal hit, to be humane.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

I'd go with a 6.5 Creedmoor. Simply because most have 1:8 twist barrels, and a good rep for shooting factory ammo well.

I'd opt for a/the 5 round magazine though if you go with the Tikka. Look at Bergara rifles also, they have good reviews as well. Both have stable stocks.

I'd look at Zeiss Terra series scopes. For the money, they are clear and solid. 3-9, 4-12.

If you reload, Lapua is now producing cases for the Creedmoor. Quality brass, that lasts for a good while. If you don't reload, and 200 yards is your expected maximum, you might find factory ammo that shoots well enough for you. Try to stick with an 8 twist.

I'm not ignoring your iron sight, red dot, 10 round mag, chassis, choices; but for me all that would be a no go. I have a light Model 7 in 6.5x47 Lapua, a medium weight single shot Model 700 in 6.5 Lapua, and a 260 Remington heavy sporter in a long action Model 70. And, I do have a 16 lb 260 SPR. I could hunt with it, but I'm not toting it far....

 

[Corn-Picker]

The most important factor is fit. Trying rifles on for size at a sporting goods shop should be the first step. Only when you have identified a rifle that fits should you worry about caliber and finish. There's a good chance your first rifle won't be your dream rifle, you'll know more about what you do and don't like after you hunt with it for a few seasons.

 

[jmr40]

You're making this way too complicated. Any decent lightweight bolt rifle in 243, 260, 6.5 Creed, 7-08, or 308 will work. Even the 243 with good quality bullets is an acceptable elk round in a pinch and near perfect for deer. As you go up in caliber you get better elk/bear/moose rounds, but with increasing recoil. The 260 or 6.5 Creed would be a good compromise. There is literally nothing in North America I'd not hunt with a 26 caliber rifle and good bullets.

Forget iron's or dot sights. A 1-4X20 scope on 1X is faster on target than any of them, offers enough magnification for 300 yard shots on big game and works better in low light situations than anything else. You can go up in magnification and give up a little up close, but gain more precision at distance. I use a 3-9X40 and have never felt handicapped up close on 3X.

You don't need 10 rounds. Most of the guns being considered come with 4 round detachable mags. Carry a couple of spares if you want more ammo.

You don't need or really want a chassis system on a rifle meant to be carried.

My Predator 308. It is 7 1/4 lbs as pictured. With a 1-4X20 scope on it weight is under 7 lbs. The short 18" barrel is handy in brush and I get about 60 fps less speed than my 22" 308's. The 2nd photo is my 6.5 Creed. With the longer barrel with a smaller hole in it weight is 7 3/4 lbs. Recoil is a non issue, but the barrel is a little long for true brush hunting. I paid $389 OTD including tax for each of these. They shoot 1" three shot groups at 200 yards.

I like the Rugers and think they are a great value for the money. But the Tikka might just be a hair more accurate. Especially the CTR. But they are also a lot more expensive. The Savage 11 series is probably just as good too. I'm not sold on the Axis just yet.

Ruger doesn't offer the Predator in SS. But the standard rifle is offered in SS in 243, 7-08, and 308. SS is nice,but not a deal killer.

 

[MrBorland]

4.Tikka T3X CTR Stainless 6.5
-Pros: Stainless, 10rd mag, medium weight barrel
-Cons: no iron sights, most expensive option.

I have one of these and admit to being quite smitten with it. I bought it for mid-range tactical matches, but found it makes an excellent whitetail/woods rifle when topped with a 1-3x scope. If you want the CTR with irons, look at the "Arctic" version (though I think they currently only come in .308).

Here's a nice buck I took with my CTR last season - approx 80 yards in dense woods (a very tight shot) with a very moderate load & Hornady 139gr SST. Perfect performance & effect.

The rifle's also capable of sterling accuracy. I made keyring fobs with it at 100 yards

 

[LoonWulf]

I have one of these and admit to being quite smitten with it. I bought it for mid-range tactical matches, but found it makes an excellent whitetail/woods rifle when topped with a 1-3x scope. If you want the CTR with irons, look at the "Arctic" version (though I think they currently only come in .308).

Here's a nice buck I took with my CTR last season - approx 80 yards in dense woods (a very tight shot) with a very moderate load & Hornady 139gr SST. Perfect performance & effect.

The rifle's also capable of sterling accuracy. I made keyring fobs with it at 100 yards

Put some hooks on those and u got some nice earings!

 

[someguy2800]

Funny, I still have a nickel on my keychain that I shot a hole though with my tikka shortly after buying it. After 14 years in my pocket you can barely tell it's a nickel anymore, it's all rubbed smooth.

 

[browningguy]

Many states have a maximum legal limit for magazine capacity when hunting, often 5 or less. As others have mentioned if you are building a lightweight rifle for hunting in the mountains then you may be looking for the wrong things.

Why a chassis system? None of them are all that light.
Just get good optics and don't worry about iron sights, as mentioned they will only be useful if you have a quick detach ring setup for the optic.
6.5 Creedmoor would be my choice for a good all around rifle, I own and shoot a .243 (and .270, 7x57, .308, 30-06, .300 winny...) but to be honest it's way down the list for hunting anything bigger than deer.
Personally a Savage 116 Trophy Hunter looks about right, stainless, accutrigger, 4 round DBM, just over 7 pounds. What's not to like?

 

[Water-Man]

I used to have a home in Speculator and, unless things have changed, you rarely get a shot much more than 50 yds. in the Adirondacks.

Forget the 10 round capacity. Waste of time. I highly recommend the Tikka. Bought two of them eight years ago and couldn't be more pleased with their performance. I suggest the 6.5x55 SE or the 6.5 Creedmoor. Both will dispatch anything around there or most any place else with proper bullet and shot placement.

 

[adcoch1]

Thats when the Tikkas were right at the top of my GREAT deal list, i still think they are good buys at what they go for now.....i missed my chance on one, bought another remington instead...shoulda got the tikka....

Every time i go to get one this happens... Last time i bought a howa instead of the tikka, and it shot amazingly well, but i still need that tikka!

 

[LoonWulf]

Every time i go to get one this happens... Last time i bought a howa instead of the tikka, and it shot amazingly well, but i still need that tikka!

True mine shoots really well also.....

Oh hey lets throw the howa1500 in the mix as recommendations as well, they can be had off the shelf with a 10rnd mag, and theres a chassis for them tho i dont know which it is.

Not sure if theres a sight option, or a stainless, tho i know there are some cerakoted variants.

Only down side is that flat bottomed action, fairly thick barrel, and heavy bottom metal put the short actions squarely in the 7.5-8lb range sans scope.

 

[Bart B.]

The 308 Winchester round has a lot more barrel life than the 6.5mm bore rounds. Few adults cannot handle its recoil; even with 200 grain bullets dropping moose in their tracks.

A rifle with a 4 or 5 round internal box magazine will be more accurate, reliable and manageable in the woods than one with an accuracy robbing detachable 10 round combat emotion satisfying magazine so many folks must have these days. Internal box magazines won't fall out. Yes, I'm biased. We all are, to some degree, about everything.

 

[cdb1]

I feel a co-witnessed iron sight/red dot suits my needs best for quick target acquisition, in potentially low light, as well as quick follow up shots.

Are you wanting an AR or bolt action? From your statement about a co-witnessed red dot with iron sights that rules out a bolt action rifle. A scope is much better than a red dot in low light. A scope will enhance and magnify the target in low light. With a red dot the image won't be enhanced nor magnified so even though you have a red dot you won't be able to see the animal as well as you would with a scope.


I think a 2-7 scope is an excellent suggestion. I also like the Burris better than the VX-1 in a 2-7 and it costs less. Of course I'd take a VX-2 over a Fullfield.

 

[MCMXI]

A rifle with a 4 or 5 round internal box magazine will be more accurate, reliable and manageable in the woods than one with an accuracy robbing detachable 10 round combat emotion satisfying magazine so many folks must have these days. Internal box magazines won't fall out. Yes, I'm biased. We all are, to some degree, about everything.

My favorite hunting rifles all have blind box magazines but I think that there's a place for detachable magazines on hunting rifles for some people. Up here in MT we can drive around with a loaded rifle in a vehicle while hunting and most don't hunt from tree stands so detachable magazines don't offer much except faster loading/unloading. However, many have to load/unload to get into a stand, load/unload to get in out of a vehicle which may or may not include a four wheeler of some description, and generally find a detachable magazine easier to work with. Tikka, Kimber and many others offer hunting rifles with three or four round detachable magazines for ease of use, not ammunition capacity. As for the accuracy issue, I don't have the same opinion as you on that. I own many rifles with detachable magazines that are tack drivers and I've shot many hunting rifles with detachable magazines that are easily capable of 3/4 moa or better out beyond reasonable hunting distances.

For those that hunt in Hawaii, you can't have a loaded firearm in your vehicle, a loaded magazine in a vehicle counts as a loaded firearm regardless of whether it's actually inserted in the firearm, and you can't have a loaded firearm on a public road so a detachable magazine may not make as much sense there. I'm not sure if a loaded magazine in a pocket while on a public road counts as a loaded firearm though. I know for a fact that a loaded magazine in a firearm with an open bolt or closed bolt with an empty chamber is loaded according to DLNR officials.

 

[LoonWulf]

loaded DMs in vehicles (ATVs are considered vehicles, watched a guy almost get his 10k+ dollar atv taken away because he had a loaded shotgun on a rack) are ok here (hawaii island atleast) as long as your in hunting areas, and away from safe zones, which include paved roads. They are NOT ok to be inserted in to a firearm when in a vehicle, and are not ok to be loaded when out of a hunting area, crossing a paved public road counts as leaving an area, guns have to be unloaded and re-cased.

I like them because i can leave a loaded one pinched in my ashtray and the gun wedged between the front seats in my truck makes it almost as fast to load as having a gun with rounds in magazine and an empty chamber (I never leave rounds in the chamber when in a vehicle, shot a hole in the roof of my truck as a kid like that).

accuracy wise ive not had them cause me any problems, but im comfortable for a hunting gun to produce 1-1.5MOA accuracy. My dbm guns do that reliably.

 

[salt&battery]

I used to have a home in Speculator and, unless things have changed, you rarely get a shot much more than 50 yds. in the Adirondacks.

Forget the 10 round capacity. Waste of time. I highly recommend the Tikka. Bought two of them eight years ago and couldn't be more pleased with their performance. I suggest the 6.5x55 SE or the 6.5 Creedmoor. Both will dispatch anything around there or most any place else with proper bullet and shot placement.

in order to get a 200 yd shot in the adirondacks you need a bulldozer and dynamite. also in NY state as a lot of other states you cant have more then 5 rounds for big game. looks like it might be a drive by post any way

 

[eastbank]

i just picked up a remington 700sps in .260 rem with a 24" barrel and 1-8 twist and mounted a leupold verix 111 3x9 EFR AO in weaver four strap rings on it and it weights 7.2 pounds scoped. i will put a 2x7 leupold on it later, i have not shot it yet. my other .260 remingtons. eastbank.

 

[cdb1]

I think you are right about a drive by so I'll hijack the thread. Should I get a magazine extension for my turkey gun?

 

[salt&battery]

I think you are right about a drive by so I'll hijack the thread. Should I get a magazine extension for my turkey gun?

lol good one

 

[salt&battery]

i just picked up a remington 700sps in .260 rem with a 24" barrel and 1-8 twist and mounted a leupold verix 111 3x9 EFR AO in weaver four strap rings on it and it weights 7.2 pounds scoped. i will put a 2x7 leupold on it later, i have not shot it yet. my other .260 remingtons. eastbank.

that is a great choice of a rifle. like to hear how it shoots if you got the time