ColtPythonElite
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2011
- Messages
- 10,474
Guns, gold, silver, or whatever...IMO, those are only good investments if you are debt free. IMO, you are better off investing in yourself by paying off debt before investing in tangibles.
Buy Guns Not Gold- A Better Investment / GunsAmerica blog
- Thread starter Bill_Rights
- Start date
- Status
azmjs
member
If there is a societal / civilizational collapse, debt is the best possible investment.
Consider any scenario where civil society and institutions are destroyed.
Debts incurred to credit cards, banks, etc, would not be collected.
However, those tangible assets you purchased using the money your borrowed would still be yours.
The same advantage to debtors exists if there is severe inflation.
I don't think these ideas are really to hard to understand, so I am always interested in seeing who among the chicken littles is willing to quite literally put his money where his mouth is and maximize his debt.
Consider any scenario where civil society and institutions are destroyed.
Debts incurred to credit cards, banks, etc, would not be collected.
However, those tangible assets you purchased using the money your borrowed would still be yours.
The same advantage to debtors exists if there is severe inflation.
I don't think these ideas are really to hard to understand, so I am always interested in seeing who among the chicken littles is willing to quite literally put his money where his mouth is and maximize his debt.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Well, quit obviously the Federal government is!
And that will eventually cause the nightmare scenario everyone is worried about in this thread.
rc
towboat_er
Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2011
- Messages
- 889
I last bought gold at around $600/ oz. I am now buying guns and ammo.
Well first of all I "invest" in gold and that can mean any number of things besides buying it in physical quantities. I am not worried about a total system collapse just yet and have no more fears of accessing my investment any more than the cash in my bank account. Gold investments have vastly outperformed the rate of inflation which more than can be said for the price of guns. I just think buying large quantities of guns as an investment is stupid. I don't know of anyone who has become rich or survived financially doing this. If you really want to look at a worse case scenario/total economic collapse I still say you are better off burying gold in your back yard where it will retain its purchasing power and allow you to buy anything you need. Of course I have guns for protection but I think stockpiling them for future sale is a great way to go bankrupt.
azmjs
member
The entire post war boom to economic preeminence was funded by debt, there's nothing wrong with public debt in a country like ours.
The only nightmare scenario with any practical likelihood is a nuclear war, an asteroid, or a super-volcano.
Mike1234567
member
I am debt-free except for a dad-blasted car payment of $184/mo. I paid cash for everything else so no mortgage, no loans (other than car), no credit cards... nada. I'm doing without "frills" so this is possible. I just sold a property in NM so now I can pay off that stupid car, finish a cabin so I can rent that out, and have all the cash I need to pay the taxes/penalties for withdrawals from my 401K to make all this happen.
Burt Blade
Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2004
- Messages
- 477
Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade."
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
Kipling
http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/cold_iron.html
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade."
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
Kipling
http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/cold_iron.html
Owen Sparks
member
- Joined
- May 27, 2007
- Messages
- 4,523
In a discussion of knives last night someone remarked that the waiting time on a new Randall Made knife is FIVE YEARS! I wish I had a safe full of those!
steven58
Member
While I have diversified my portfolio with firearms, I for one am not going to bet a significant amount of my investment funds on the social/economic/political collapse of of the US of A. So, I won't be "investing" in anything that requires a SHTF scenario to acquire the requisite increase in value.
My advice, and I'm willing to take full credit for this great idea, is "buy low and sell high"! To me that means that under most circumstances guns purchased at retail are going to take a long time (if ever) to beat inflation.
On the other hand I agree that quality firearms purchased at a discount will appreciate over time and can make a fine, and fun, way to diversify.
I take a 2 pronged approach that does not involve buying high end or "investment grade" weapons:
1) Keep an amount of cash on hand at all times (the amount is up to the individual) so that when an unexpected opportunity arises you can buy that pristine WW II Luger or Singer 1911 with GI papers that was just inherited by a grandson whose wife demands "get rid of that thing, I won't have any guns in my house!"
2) Keep an eye on sources like CDNN and AIM Surplus for salvage, surplus or PD turn in weapons that can be bought in volume. Swiss K-31s at $ 250, H&K P7s at $ 450 or Steyr M9A-1s for $ 300 a few years back would have been great investments.
My favorite is buying rifles and ammo through the civilian marksmanship program. This is where I have bought the lions share of my "investment" firearms. CMP allows you to buy up to 12 M1 Grands per calendar year. I have 2 years worth of GI wood service grades greased, sealed up in metalized plastic gun storage bags with VPCI chips and desiccant packs in the back of my safe. I don't intend to even consider selling them for at least 10 years. PS, as of now, CMP is out of stock on service grades and will raise all prices 10% as of 1/1/12. They will probably have more service grades after January but even the most optimistic estimates has this supply of Garands running out in 3 to 5 years.
CMP's Greek HXP 30-06 194 rounds on en-block clips in an ammo can WAS available until very recently for about $ 117.00 delivered. I stashed away as much as I could. Now they only have the 200 count loose rounds for the same price, for as long as that lasts. I plan on buying a bunch of that as well.
Just like any other investment: You pays your money and you takes your choice!
My advice, and I'm willing to take full credit for this great idea, is "buy low and sell high"! To me that means that under most circumstances guns purchased at retail are going to take a long time (if ever) to beat inflation.
On the other hand I agree that quality firearms purchased at a discount will appreciate over time and can make a fine, and fun, way to diversify.
I take a 2 pronged approach that does not involve buying high end or "investment grade" weapons:
1) Keep an amount of cash on hand at all times (the amount is up to the individual) so that when an unexpected opportunity arises you can buy that pristine WW II Luger or Singer 1911 with GI papers that was just inherited by a grandson whose wife demands "get rid of that thing, I won't have any guns in my house!"
2) Keep an eye on sources like CDNN and AIM Surplus for salvage, surplus or PD turn in weapons that can be bought in volume. Swiss K-31s at $ 250, H&K P7s at $ 450 or Steyr M9A-1s for $ 300 a few years back would have been great investments.
My favorite is buying rifles and ammo through the civilian marksmanship program. This is where I have bought the lions share of my "investment" firearms. CMP allows you to buy up to 12 M1 Grands per calendar year. I have 2 years worth of GI wood service grades greased, sealed up in metalized plastic gun storage bags with VPCI chips and desiccant packs in the back of my safe. I don't intend to even consider selling them for at least 10 years. PS, as of now, CMP is out of stock on service grades and will raise all prices 10% as of 1/1/12. They will probably have more service grades after January but even the most optimistic estimates has this supply of Garands running out in 3 to 5 years.
CMP's Greek HXP 30-06 194 rounds on en-block clips in an ammo can WAS available until very recently for about $ 117.00 delivered. I stashed away as much as I could. Now they only have the 200 count loose rounds for the same price, for as long as that lasts. I plan on buying a bunch of that as well.
Just like any other investment: You pays your money and you takes your choice!
Plan2Live
Member
Think well balanced portfolio. Gold has it's place but it really should be viewed more as an insurance policy that an investment.
I don't have initals behind my name but here's my theory. Current price of gold is about $1,600/ounce. That will buy you about two to three months worth of groceries. In a worse case scenario, I doubt you could buy two or three months worth of food for one ounce of gold. And assuming you are buying a lot less than a large quantity of anything, what would you do, shave off a corner of gold?
As others have said about gold, you can't eat it, you can't drink it, you can't put bullets in it and shoot it, you can't put it in a gun and shoot it, you might be able to use it in a slingshot but you better not miss! So to be of any use you will need to trade it for other things. Maybe it would be better to have the other things. Again, well balanced portfolio.
Conversly, guns and ammo (to stay on topic) have much more practical uses and will be high demand items also.
I don't have initals behind my name but here's my theory. Current price of gold is about $1,600/ounce. That will buy you about two to three months worth of groceries. In a worse case scenario, I doubt you could buy two or three months worth of food for one ounce of gold. And assuming you are buying a lot less than a large quantity of anything, what would you do, shave off a corner of gold?
As others have said about gold, you can't eat it, you can't drink it, you can't put bullets in it and shoot it, you can't put it in a gun and shoot it, you might be able to use it in a slingshot but you better not miss! So to be of any use you will need to trade it for other things. Maybe it would be better to have the other things. Again, well balanced portfolio.
Conversly, guns and ammo (to stay on topic) have much more practical uses and will be high demand items also.
If it's a strictly SHTF scenario that I know people fantasize about, guns and land are your ultimately best investments. Land to use for growing food or to raise animals, and guns to protect it. That is an extreme situation. You would still need some form of currency or something to barter with to keep your self supported. I agree with Plan2Live that, ultimately, who will want a small chunk of metal over a box of ammo or some meat for their family? Gold, like anything else, is only worth what people will accept for it.
I am no financial advisor and I am simply stating an opinion regarding an ultimate societal breakdown scenario. If you feel gold is a safe investment, and I do wish I had some, then by all means buy as much of it as you feel is good insurance. Either way, I think converting cash into a usable resource whenever feasable, is a good strategy right now.
I am no financial advisor and I am simply stating an opinion regarding an ultimate societal breakdown scenario. If you feel gold is a safe investment, and I do wish I had some, then by all means buy as much of it as you feel is good insurance. Either way, I think converting cash into a usable resource whenever feasable, is a good strategy right now.
earplug
Member
Gold rules
Its portable, Its easy to exchange. Its easy to store. The only reason it seems expensive is the lack of value/trust in the dollar. Does anyone think the dollar will gain in value faster then Gold or Silver?
If you try and trade firearms for goods and services you will find that people like me already have enough of what we need.
I can always trade gold for stuff. Dragging a case of firearms around to trade for a car repair or to trade for a cow is a poor plan.
Silver would be a good thing to own.
During a siege gold's value goes up compared to silver due to its portability.
People escaping Vietnam used gold. There were firearms all over that place.
The firearm market is variable due to new inventions and need.
A Glock 26 may be a better item for trade then a Prewar S&W. Yet the S&W is worth more today.
Its portable, Its easy to exchange. Its easy to store. The only reason it seems expensive is the lack of value/trust in the dollar. Does anyone think the dollar will gain in value faster then Gold or Silver?
If you try and trade firearms for goods and services you will find that people like me already have enough of what we need.
I can always trade gold for stuff. Dragging a case of firearms around to trade for a car repair or to trade for a cow is a poor plan.
Silver would be a good thing to own.
During a siege gold's value goes up compared to silver due to its portability.
People escaping Vietnam used gold. There were firearms all over that place.
The firearm market is variable due to new inventions and need.
A Glock 26 may be a better item for trade then a Prewar S&W. Yet the S&W is worth more today.
Are you always this short sighted? Last I checked, guns and ammunition can help defend family and friends or likewise allow you to hunt for food in economic conditions where standard currency essentially becomes worthless.
On a side note, it does bring up another point of order-- Gold is always touted as the goto economic hedge, but nobody ever wants to discuss what happens to the value of gold when things depress to the point where people struggle to put food on the table. Gold is only worth something if there is an economy to sustain it. The book One Second After by WILLIAM R. FORSTCHEN takes this issue to a degree. About three years into a horribly plausible event, the main currency of value becomes .22 bullets.
All of that said, I do think there is a lot of fear mongering. Frankly, I have more confidence in our system and fellow man than to believe we're going down the drain. We're not even close to that point yet.
Tim the student
Member
So you are buying CMP rifles specifically to put into storage until you decide to sell them?
azmjs
member
In any practically possible scenario where it would become an issue, guns and ammo would have far greater value than gold because of their utility.
In fantasy movie scenarios, sure, goldmight be a currency, but anything that could knock out civil society would also knock out the instituion of money for a long, long time.
azmjs
member
Without civil society you cannot own land, so having land is not a way to store value in an apocalypse.
IMTHDUKE
Member
signed....Captain of the Unsinkable Titanic
steven58
Member
Tim,
No, no more than I bought my home with the specific intention to sell it. Nevertheless, my home's value has fluctuated since I bought it and even though I have no intention of selling in the near future I do keep up with its current value.
My "collection" of Garands, and all of my firearms are part of my assets. Ideally, They will be passed down to my children and grand children along with my other assets.
I have spent some time in other countries, I have seen governments decide to recall, revalue and re issue currencies. With the stroke of a pen a life savings can be reduced to a fraction of its previous value. No SHTF, no zombie invasion just a book keeping correction and poof! FDR made gold bullion ownership illegal, Nixon took us off the gold standard. What if the Renminbi becomes the world reserve currency? or a co- reserve with the dollar? Stroke of a pen...
IMHO while precious metals are a good hedge against inflation they can also be very volatile. Gold has just recently broken through its inflation adjusted high if the late 70s. Silver has been all over the place (remember the Hunt brothers?).
Since the early 60s and adjusting for inflation Garands have only gone up in value. no spikes no big jumps just a steady climb up. So, to more specifically answer your question I purchased my Garands for my personal use and one of the uses is to store a small portion of my net worth.
Don't confuse investment with speculation.
No, no more than I bought my home with the specific intention to sell it. Nevertheless, my home's value has fluctuated since I bought it and even though I have no intention of selling in the near future I do keep up with its current value.
My "collection" of Garands, and all of my firearms are part of my assets. Ideally, They will be passed down to my children and grand children along with my other assets.
I have spent some time in other countries, I have seen governments decide to recall, revalue and re issue currencies. With the stroke of a pen a life savings can be reduced to a fraction of its previous value. No SHTF, no zombie invasion just a book keeping correction and poof! FDR made gold bullion ownership illegal, Nixon took us off the gold standard. What if the Renminbi becomes the world reserve currency? or a co- reserve with the dollar? Stroke of a pen...
IMHO while precious metals are a good hedge against inflation they can also be very volatile. Gold has just recently broken through its inflation adjusted high if the late 70s. Silver has been all over the place (remember the Hunt brothers?).
Since the early 60s and adjusting for inflation Garands have only gone up in value. no spikes no big jumps just a steady climb up. So, to more specifically answer your question I purchased my Garands for my personal use and one of the uses is to store a small portion of my net worth.
Don't confuse investment with speculation.
Bravo Sierra
Member
Tangible assets such as more lead for the steel I already have.
Now I just need a crystal ball so I can max my credit at the right time, cause I don't want to be a slave to a bank just waiting.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
This thread has wavered between being on- and off-topic for awhile, but it's pretty clear that it's leaning far more towards being not only off-topic, but a ridiculous SHTF indulgence thread to boot.
- Status
