Buy post-ban receivers NOW?

[Diggler]

I don't have ANY AR's yet. So, would it be a good idea to buy a few low-cost stripped lowers now so that even if the ban only expires for a day, I still have some post-post-ban's that can be made really EVIL? I imagine there's gonna be a rush on AR stuff on September 14, even though there isn't any real difference in the receivers. For $85 - $120 a piece I could get enough lowers that would give me some projects for quite some time.

 

[ddc]

I've seen this question raised more than once over the past year or so.

It seems to me that the answer is somewhat unknowable because it depends upon the exact format of whatever AWB replaces the current one, assuming that unfortunate situation occurs.

For example if a follow-on ban is worded exactly like the current one and interrpreted by the ATF exactly like the current one then you would need more than just the stripped lowers in order for the ATF to consider you as having an assault rifle in your possesion. i.e. you basically need all the other attendant parts although they don't have to be assembled together.

Unfortunately that puts one in a possibly precarious situation during the time between today and the day the ban ends as I believe having all those parts together in one place is considered "contructive intent" to create an assault weapon and is therefore illegal as the receiver as noted is a post-ban.

On the other hand if the follow-on ban is worded differently and interpreted differently then how can we say today whether or not stocking up on post-ban receivers is a good strategy or not?

I've actually considered doing it myself but the issue is somewhat moot as I'd rather spend my firearms dollars elsewhere and I already have the pre-ban situation pretty well covered.

I certainly don't consider myself an expert in the AWB so take all that with a grain of salt!

Furthermore, I've rambled on enough so I'll shut up now and sit back and see what everybody else thinks.

 

[Diggler]

But my situation is that I don't have ANY AR's - pre-ban or not.

I am considering buying a few stripped lowers, post-ban, and letting them sit. I don't have a single AR part now, let alone pre-ban. When Sept. 14 comes, my 'post-ban' will be worth the same as the expensive pre-bans - prebans will be cheaper. And when it sunsets, I can buy all the toys I want and put them on the receivers.

I'm thinking about a scenario where everyone starts buying after the sunset, and there are backorders... then maybe in November if the wrong guy wins and they have an emergency session in Congress and ram it through again, I now have 'pre-bans'. If the ban is renewed before September, then I still just have a bunch of lowers. Which is OK because I don't want to wait another (at least) 10 years just to see if I can get one with flash hiders, etc. I'd just build them to current post-ban configurations.

 

[yzguy]

...I'd just build them to current post-ban configurations.

you are still gambling here also.... if the bad people win, it COLD happen that after the new ban passes AR's are illegal to build at all, in which case you could not even put together the lowers you have, because before the new ban you did not have a rifle.

this is very hypothetical and depends totally on the wording of any new ban which I hope (and vote for) does not happen in any form.

 

[ddc]

Diggler,

I hear ya.

I guess most of my response was predicated on your original premise that the AWB was only expired for a single day although maybe I took that more literally than you intended.

Therefore assuming the new ban was similar to the old one you would only have 24 hours to legally accumulate all the parts you needed to create an assault rifle.

I realize that is probably an unrealistic scenario and that when the ban expires it will probably take much longer than 24 hours before a new one takes it's place (and hopefully never)

So, yeah, after reading your response and the particular scenario you laid out there I could see the argument for having some post-ban receivers on hand.

As yzguy says this is all very hypothetical. It may be a good gamble though if the worst case scenario occurs you are only out the cost of a couple of post ban receivers which isn't going to be a terrible loss for a lot of people although everyones situation is different.
It seems the answer revolves somewhat around whether or not you feel there is going to be a rush on receivers on 9/15/04.

 

[Chipperman]

I say buy one.
You have none now. There could be a rush on them if the ban goes away. If you get one now, you at least will have a post-ban. If the ban goes away, you can do preban setup. If it doesn't you can still do postban, which is more than you have now. If the ban gets worse, you'll at least have the postban grandfathered in.

I see it as a no lose situation. The cost is not going to go down on stripped receivers, no matter what happens. I would not buy 20 of them though. Just buy one or two for yourself, and you can't lose.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The date of the receiver's manufacture is unimportant. Under the existing ban, you cannot take a pre-'94 stripped receiver and add the evil features. If a new ban takes place the day after the AW ban sunsets and it is the same or even more restrictive, you will not be able to take the stripped lowers and add the evil features. According to ATF, it must be a completely assembled firearm with enough evil features present at the time the ban becomes effective to be considered grandfathered.

 

[yankytrash]

On an AR, what we talking about here? Threaded barrel, bayo lug, flash hider, collapsible stock.

Basically, you'll need/want to replace the barrel (easily done with the barrel wrench) if the AW ban sunsets. Make sure you buy a pinned telescoping stock so you can remove the pin after the ban.

It's not really a big deal, why don't you just build a couple posties now, and just plan to replace the barrels later when laws permit it?

 

[No4Mk1*]

How about if you buy a complete lower and have a friend who lives in another house buy a complete new pre-ban upper now? You could buy the upper on Sept 15 and until then neither of you would own an assault rifle. It has to be a friend without a post ban lower though. No lawyer could prove that the upper was yours as long as he paid for it. You could give him $50 more than he paid for it on Sept 15.

 

[Wildalaska]

Buy a lower now...by August ya aint gonna be able to get one...

If ya have it in your house with other parts...so what...there arent gonna be any prosecutions on AWB unless ya commit another crime. On Septemeber 15, put it together, take it back to your dealer, sign it in to him, sign it out again, get him to write a recipt for ya specifying the evil features it has...keep,copies anbd go home...voila instant grandpa gun

WildneverunderestimatethecreativityofgunownersAlaska

 

[Diggler]

Hmmmm.....

Say I take Wild's advice... but don't have the money to complete all of the rifles. (I'd like 3... one for me, and one for each son). IF I would happen to trick out one of them with a flash supressor, collapsible stock, bayonet etc. and took it to a dealer and got it signed for... then outfitted the other two with the stock and upper of the first one, taking them to different dealers, would that work? Since I could probably buy the rest of the parts as needed...

According to ATF, it must be a completely assembled firearm with enough evil features present at the time the ban becomes effective to be considered grandfathered.

Is this true? If so, then why are the stripped preban lowers going for so much??

 

[No4Mk1*]

Since you don't own an AR-15, buy the upper of your choice now and have a dealer hold a complete lower for you now. On 9-15, go and buy your lower and put it together. If the AWB is renewed without change, just remove the FS and bayonet lug and use it with your upper.
I might do this.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Is this true?

It is very true and they are being sold by people that either don't know or don't care about informing their customers.

 

[NevadaPistolero]

I cant wait for the ban to drop so I can buy a preban gun from all the guys who are going to be giving them away for next to nothing. There gonna be worthless when the ban drops.......


NOT

 

[El Rojo]

I am thinking that the current ban will not be renewed. The reason I say this is if it sunsets, that is fine and dandy, but I do not believe the same ban we had before will be the same ban anti's squeeze through this time. If there is going to be a new ban, I bet it will be a lot like California's. Kiss all of your ARs good-bye. That is my feeling on the subject. Either we will win the whole ball game or they are going to put through a "better" ban that gets rid of all those loop-holes that let you buy the evil guns you have now.

For that reason, build a post ban now and buy a pre-ban upper as soon as the thing expires and put it on your currently existing lower. I like the idea of giving a friend in another area some cash and having him buy you a pre-ban now and then as soon as September 15 rolls around, go right over to his house and "buy" it from him and put it on your rifle. You need a new AR now because if they do get a California type ban in before the sunset, the rest of America can kiss new ARs good bye.

 

[Diggler]

I cant wait for the ban to drop so I can buy a preban gun from all the guys who are going to be giving them away for next to nothing. There gonna be worthless when the ban drops.......


NOT

Have you seen the price of used LEO only AR's? With all the goodies, you can get them as low as $650. The only reason that the prebans are so expensive are for the same reason that the full-auto's are so expensive. No more available to civilians after a certain date.

I would think that prebans will be going for something between what they are now and the low price of the LEO only used ones. They probably have to drop the price of the LEOs only a little more because of the limited market for them.

 

[Detritus]

the following is advice i was given a number of times when contemplating if i wanted to try and build the rifle my wife wants, in a Pre-ban config after the sunset...

IF i repeat IF someone is somehow worried that following the advice given by WildAlaska above might get them in trouble there IS another loophole that the ATF has left us poor put upon gunowners...

get REAL sneaky, BATF says if the Pre-ban parts are not not owned by YOU or within your direct control, IE you do NOT have easy acess to them (as in locked in a cabinet you do not have key to) then you can have a post ban weapon/lower in the same home.

ya married?? got a roommate you trust?? give the other person teh money, have them buy a pre-ban complete upper, lock it away in a safe or even filing cabinet that YOU do NOT have a keep or combo to. go buy a lower in whatever config makes you happy, stripped, complete whatever, but have it COMPLETE by Sept 14th... IF/when the ban sunsets, give your buddy/spouse/whatever a dollar for keeping it for you and have them write out a receipt giving it to you, assemble the rifle.

you now have a complete legal rifle.

 

[c_yeager]

Sunset or no you will always have some use for a stripped lower. There really is no downside. Yeah, they COULD make a law that you can't build anymore AR-15s at all. But they could also pass a law saying you can't own any guns at all. It's just not worth worrying about.

Come September i think there is going to be something of a "rush" on AR parts of all kinds. And being that there isnt any real downside to buying a lower NOW then i say go for it.

The ONE thing that firearms legislation in this country has taught me is that you gotta get in early and big. Think about it, dont you REALLY wish you could have bought a machingun in 1985? (heck or 1933). Or a "preban" in 1993? Those would have been some of the best investements a person could have made. The lesson here is that waiting to see how things go DOESNT help. Buy what you can while you still can and consider yourself lucky to have the ability.