Buying a Banned Gun?

[dashootist]

Does a person break any law by unknowningly buy a banned gun? More specifically, a post-94 Norinco 1911 pistol. After 1994, Norincos imports were banned in the USA.

I found a deal on a Norinco 1911 NIB. Seller said it was imported before '94. To the best of my knowledge, the pistol is legal. But who knows...maybe the pistol was smuggled into the country. Assuming a worst-case scenario, i.e., the gun was somehow smuggled into the US post-94, would I be breaking any gun laws by unwittingly buying a banned gun?

 

[bigfatdave]

It would seem to me that the ban is on importation, not possession.
On the other hand, 1911-pattern pistols aren't exactly rare, so if you don't have a warm fuzzy feeling you can always walk away.

 

[armoredman]

Ban on importation, not possession. If you are really nervous, don't buy it, but I would think you're clear. You can check with ATFE if you wish, for clarification.

 

[NG VI]

But who knows...maybe the pistol was smuggled into the country. Assuming a worst-case scenario, i.e., the gun was somehow smuggled into the US post-94, would I be breaking any gun laws by unwittingly buying a banned gun?

Wouldn't be anything you have any control over, and even if it were, no one is going to go to the trouble of smuggling in something that can be found all over the country in droves.

Though the steel is quite good.

 

[deadin]

Unfortunately, if it can be shown that the gun was "imported" after the ban (i.e. "smuggled") it would be classified as contraband and subject to confiscation. I don't think there would be any criminal charges involved, but you would be out the gun.

 

[Hammerhead6814]

So long as it was imported prior to the 1994 ban it's legal. Importation is banned, not possession or sale.

 

[Werewolf]

Jump on it if the price is right. those Norinco 1911's were great. Reliable and accurate.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Unfortunately, if it can be shown that the gun was "imported" after the ban (i.e. "smuggled") it would be classified as contraband and subject to confiscation. I don't think there would be any criminal charges involved, but you would be out the gun.

That's actually not entirely true. There are instances where Law Enforcement and Government entities can own weapons that we cannot (like the .380 Glocks which are "banned" from importation). The truth is that while these weapons are banned from being imported for civilian use, they are not banned from importation by these official agencies. If the weapons end up becoming the personal property of an LEO, they can then be sold on the regular market as a used weapon.

This could very well be the case of the Norinco you own. It may very well have been imported legally. At any rate, you will not be charged with ownership of a "prohibited weapon" or anything like that.

 

[jfh]

That Norinco 1911 must be numbered. It might even have an importer's stamp on it. Is there some reason that you suspect it was illegally imported after 1994? Or, were you just confused about the issues over date of importation / date of (original) sale?

Jim H.

 

[DMF]

Are there importer markings on the gun? Every gun legally imported for the last four decades requires importer markings. AFAIK, Norinco was not a US importer itself, so in addition to the manufacturer markings by Norinco there would need to be importer markings from a US company with an FFL. Just like guns manufactured in the US must have the makers name, city, and state marked, an imported gun would also need to be marked with the importer's name, city, and state.

 

[dashootist]

Yes, "SSI Ont Ca" is marked on the side. Serial number is "606xxx".

The gun is in excellent condition--like brand new. I find it hard to believe it's 15 years old. But I'm no expert. Is it common for guns to be put away for years and never fired?

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Is it common for guns to be put away for years and never fired?

Yes, very common.

Especially with imported guns. Fearing a ban is nothing new, people have been buying imported guns and storing them away to make money after a ban for decades.

 

[jfh]

Well, you might have a can of worms there. The Norincos were imported into both the U.S. and into Canada. I imagine that they continued to be imported into Canada after the U.S. import ban was established. Since the importer scroll indicates a Canadian distributor, it's conceivable that it was manufactured post (U.S.) ban, shipped to Canada, and then found its way to the U.S.

I might add that it could well have been legally imported into the US--either by the Canadian Importer selling legally into the US (think Para-Ordnance) or by a completely-legal civilian transfer. I suppose an argument can be made for an illegal move to the U.S., but usually handguns go the other way for that venue. Before you do this, think it through carefully....

Unless you are dealing with a seller with whom you are uncomfortable, I wouldn't worry about it. If you are worried, call your local PD with the serial number and see if they will run it for you.

And, yes, it could be unfired--there are lots and lots of gun "collectors" who, for any number of reasons, never get around to shooting their guns--even the ones they buy for self-defense.

Initially, these sold for $200.00, and immediately took a bump up to $240-plus, from what I remember of the SGN ads at the time. What can you get this one for?

Jim H.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Can they be bought and held for long periods of time? Yeah. I just took deliver on a '82-era Model "A" Uzi - NIB, never fired. Owner had bought it "just in case", then found himself short on funds. It DOES happen!

 

[dashootist]

Five benjamins out the door.

I need a carry gun. If there is legal issue with this one, I'll just keep it for shooting matches only. If not, I would carry it and use for home defense.

I bought it, after doing a lot of research on it on 1911 forum and here and talking to a gun expert. I think the worst that can happen is confiscation w/o charges, and I'm ok with that.

 

[NG VI]

You won't have any legal issues with this. There is no restriction on owning Norinco products, there is a restriction on importing Norinco products. In the highly unlikely scenario that this gun was somehow imported illegaly after the ban, think of the extreme situation that it would take to result in anyone knowing or caring that it was a post-ban Norinco, if it even is. You would have to shoot someone. A DA would have to decide to charge you for the shooting, meaning it would probably be a gray area shooting. Then, they would have to feel that your pistol itself was a problem, not your actions, and then they would have to come up with the idea that it might have been illegally imported, then they would have to prove that it was illegally imported.

And the worst way that could play out, you being charged with illegally importing it, would require them to prove that YOU imported it. Which is impossible, because you obviously didn't.

Carry it and don't worry about how it got from China to you. You bought it legally and it is extremely unlikely it got here illegally.

How does it shoot?

 

[dashootist]

I tested a box of cheap walmart ammo, and the gun worked fine. There is a rough spot on the inside of the frame, and it was scratching the slide. So, I had to file it down. But so far I'm satisfied that I got a good 1911 and didn't have to spend $700.

 

[Art Eatman]

Good enough...