Buying a Gun from a Friend

[Crazy Uncle Al Gore]

I'm looking to buy a gun from my friend. I've never done this before. Is there anything special I need to do, or can I just give him the money in exchange for the gun.

By the way, I live in Ohio if that matters. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

 

[Keegan]

Looks like private party sale is legal in Ohio (guess the Brady website is good for something), so you don't need to do anything. It would probably be good to get a bill of sale, just in case your friend used the gun to kill a bunch of people before he sold it to you.

 

[Crazy Uncle Al Gore]

Lol, ok thanks. That's a good idea about the bill of sales, although I'm pretty sure he's not a mass murderer

 

[Urbana John]

I agree with Keegan, no paper work needed in Ohio between 2 parties,,,but if you really want to CYA, you can always go to a FFL dealer and do the proper paper work. At least get a BOS, with the serial number and have it notary.

UJ

 

[ServiceSoon]

I prefer to do a bill of sale with serial number, signatures & the date. You are in the clear according to the law so I guess it is personal preference.

 

[Soybomb]

If there's no state requirement for anything, I'd bring him cash and take my gun home.

 

[XavierBreath]

You don't need it, but if you would like to use a bill of sale, feel free to copy this one to a word processor, alter it as needed, print it, and use it.

 

[Mannlicher]

I'm looking to buy a gun from my friend. I've never done this before. Is there anything special I need to do, or can I just give him the money in exchange for the gun.

Lets see........ your friend hands you the gun, you hand your friend money. Yeah, thats about it. If you need a bill of sale, he is not a friend, but an acquaintance. Between friends, a handshake is all thats needed.

 

[Crazy Uncle Al Gore]

Thank you all very much for your advice.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

Lets see........ your friend hands you the gun, you hand your friend money. Yeah, thats about it. If you need a bill of sale, he is not a friend, but an acquaintance. Between friends, a handshake is all thats needed.

I think I've to agree with this one(although a BOS can't ever hurt)...I just made one of these transactions a week ago for an underfolder.

I handed him $$$, he handed me rifle, ammo and accessories and before I left a handshake and a "see you at UFC 82(if not before)" was exchanged.

 

[rust collector]

I'm trying to think of why you wouldn't want a bill of sale to establish how and when you became the lawful owner of that firearm.

It doesn't need to be notarized or filed with any 3d party, and is not an indication of mistrust. It's just a matter of being able to demonstrate that you bought and paid for it, that you did not possess it previously, and don't necessarily know anything about where it was and how it was used before it came into your life.

If for no other reason than an insurance claim, proof can be mighty important to you or your offspring some day. If someone ever claimed the gun was stolen (and your friend wouldn't necessarily know about this), the BOS establishes that you paid a reasonable price for it.

Naaahhhhh, why bother? What could possibly go wrong?

 

[aaronrkelly]

I'm trying to think of why you wouldn't want a bill of sale to establish how and when you became the lawful owner of that firearm.

It doesn't need to be notarized or filed with any 3d party, and is not an indication of mistrust. It's just a matter of being able to demonstrate that you bought and paid for it, that you did not possess it previously, and don't necessarily know anything about where it was and how it was used before it came into your life.

If for no other reason than an insurance claim, proof can be mighty important to you or your offspring some day. If someone ever claimed the gun was stolen (and your friend wouldn't necessarily know about this), the BOS establishes that you paid a reasonable price for it.

Naaahhhhh, why bother? What could possibly go wrong?

If its a paper between two people, not notarized or made legal in any other way then its just that, a piece of paper with information on it.

I cover this with logging my transactions into a book, same as FFLs do. This covers all the info you mentioned. Value, when I bought it, from whom etc

No reason to bother with MORE paperwork, needlessly at that.

If someone needs proof of when I bought something, there it is. Its just as "legal" as a note scribbled between two people on a piece of paper.

 

[ColinthePilot]

I bought a pistol from a friend a few years ago. we wrote up a bill of sale just the same as when I bought my motorcycle from him. He's no dealer of anything, just has a bunch of stuff i like and he is willing to sell. I trust this guy like a brother, but to cover both our asses, we wrote up bills of sale for both transactions. Again, no indication of mistrust, just record keeping.
As for the private sale i did a week or two ago, no paperwork at all, and i sold the gun two weeks later, again no paperwork. can't be traced to me at all, so i don't care.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If its a paper between two people, not notarized or made legal in any other way then its just that, a piece of paper with information on it.

Absolutely not true. Have you ever bought a car from an individual? They sign the title to you. You take the title to the DMV. They cut a new title in your name. In most states without notarizing. There is nothing on that title, other than the seller's signature, to prove the car was sold to you. It's only a piece of paper between two people.

A bill of sale, signed by the sellar, stating exactly what was sold, who it was sold to, what day it was sold and for how much is complete proof of ownership that will stand up in any court or insurance claim.

I do a two part bill of sale, one as a receipt for the money the seller receives and one as a receipt for the gun the buyer receives, the seller signs the receipt for the money and gives it to the buyer and the buyer signs the receipt for the gun and gives it to the seller. That way, also, if the buyer goes out and kills a bunch of people, the PO-PO can't come back to you because they found your prints on something.

 

[aaronrkelly]

Absolutely not true. Have you ever bought a car from an individual? They sign the title to you. You take the title to the DMV. They cut a new title in your name. In most states without notarizing. There is nothing on that title, other than the seller's signature, to prove the car was sold to you. It's only a piece of paper between two people.

That piece of paper is not merely a piece of paper, its a standardized state document with a seal.....thats a legal document. Far from something you print out on your PC.

My point is my entry in my logbook is just as much legal proof as a bill of sale and less intrusive to the sale.

 

[rust collector]

Must respectfully disagree, AK.

A log entry is self serving and can easily be phonied up at any time. It does not have anywhere near the probative value of a dated document with the other guy's signature.

A simple signed piece of paper can be your ticket around the statute of frauds, into partial performance, and a myriad of other legal landmines that can cause unforseen heartburn. It's called color of title, and it's something to hang your hat on when things look bleak.

A log entry is better than nothing, but you're much better off with about ten minutes of due diligence. Notary seals aren't magic, but if it makes ya feel better, do the notary thing too. Then chuck the tinfoil chapeau and enjoy the new member of the family.

 

[XavierBreath]

Aaron, I have to respectfully disagree with you there. It's the buyer and seller's signatures that make the document legal, not pink squiggly lines or a state seal. Legal documents can be composed and handwritten on sheets of paper, even napkins. Of course, they are more fragile then. Some common examples include deeds, wills and testaments, bills of sale, and transfers of ownership.

I don't see how your bound book can be any less intrusive, assuming you ask for the other person's address and drivers license number and ask them to co-sign your book.

If you do not get this information, then you have no way of contacting the person who sold or received the firearm. There is no problem with not being able to contact them, of course, unless you need their testimony to keep yourself out of jail on a bogus charge. Furthermore, without the other person's signature, you have no proof of an agreement. Without the agreement, you have no transfer of ownership. Without the signature, you have no proof there was an agreement to transfer ownership.

When you get the same information in your bound book that a Bill of Sale has, especially the other person's signature, then it will match it in court as proof of ownership, or proof of liquidation. It's just something you, yourself, wrote alone. As such, it is a record, not a legal document.

 

[ciwsguy]

I have sold several guns to friends and family thru the years. I just kept a written record of the make / model / serial number, the date I sold it, to whom, and an address or phone #, just in case someone came calling looking for some firearm that got used in the commission of a crime. No legal requirement around here that I am aware. As long as you both reside in the same state and there is no state requirement for transfer, then you're covered.

I think the Gov't is eventually going to require background checks for all private party transfers in light of the recent school shootings in VA & IL, but in reality even that will not keep the mentally impaired from privately acquiring firearms.

my two bits........

 

[aaronrkelly]

If you do not get this information, then you have no way of contacting the person who sold or received the firearm. There is no problem with not being able to contact them, of course, unless you need their testimony to keep yourself out of jail on a bogus charge. Furthermore, without the other person's signature, you have no proof of an agreement. Without the agreement, you have no transfer of ownership. Without the signature, you have no proof there was an agreement to transfer ownership.

When you get the same information in your bound book that a Bill of Sale has, especially the other person's signature, then it will match it in court as proof of ownership, or proof of liquidation. It's just something you, yourself, wrote alone. As such, it is a record, not a legal document.

Has anyone ever went to jail because they couldnt prove when they bought or sold a firearm? The burden of proof isnt on you, its on us (LE). We occasionally contact someone ref a firearm we come across. A simple "I sold that gun 2 years ago" is all that is needed, sure to whom and the date will be taken if given.....but we dont go kick anyones door down to get a document. Its simply not necessary or required, atleast not in my state.....some may vary.

Do it if you like, apparently its piece of mind for you. Even I wont buy a gun from a private seller if I need to jump thru hoops.....there are plenty of other guns to buy. I dont require hoops when I sale either.

My point with the bill of sale was its not notarized. IE if the other party balks your paper is virtually worthless (your now forced to prove they signed it). As a notary myself, when notarizing documents it my job to take ID and verify all parties are who they say they are and witness the signature. Then use my stamp and sign it myself. You have a third party to the signatures, ie the "I didnt sign that" defense isnt going to work.

Your HALF covering your bases, my point is either "why bother" or "go all the way".

 

[poppy]

I'm in late here, but if the OP is still listening, both you and the friend must be Ohio residents for this to be legal. You said you lived in Ohio, but didn't say where the friend lives.