Buying a more expensive rifle vs a project rifle

[HoeMuffin]

So I've been saving up money while I wait for my 90 day long gun cooldown to end, and I'm looking to pick up a centerfire deer/casual target rifle up to 200, 300 yards. Looking for something relatively light and compact (mainly heavy woods where I'm at), probably in 7mm-08, with a length of pull under 13 inches just because I find shorter stocks more comfortable. And a wood stock because I just like them .

I've been looking at the Ruger Hawkeye Compact, Browning X-bolt Micro Midas, and a Model 70 Featherweight Compact. I've also been looking at getting a budget rifle like the Ruger American or for slightly more the Weatherby Vanguard Carbine, and then spending more to get a wood stock from Boyds. Tinkering with the Weatherby is going to be around the same as the others, but the Ruger American will be a lot cheaper.

My question is, does it make more sense to buy the more expensive rifle up front, or to work on a project rifle? Or is that the firearm equivalent of putting on a huge muffler on a Honda Civic?

Thanks!

 

[onegunred]

Me being the way I am I would rather spend $100. and make it myself than spend $50. and buy it ready made. Depending on your ability and access to tools, go for it. However a used Weatherby can be had as well as a Browning. I didn't help a bit did I ? Quality does cost $$$$. A used rifle of high quality is by far better than a new cheap one Also, if you look around you may find a quality barreled action on a sorry stock and go from there. I have refinished a stock or two and it is rewarding and self gratifying. You may restock the action, the ideas can be limitless. Good luck.

 

[jmr40]

I have and like my Ruger American compact. It is a good $350 budget gun that I could care less if it gets beat up. I have other, nicer guns. I can't see spending any money on it. It will still be a cheap budget gun with a better looking stock. It won't shoot any better or be worth a dime more. More like putting a $40 saddle on a $10 horse. I could see doing so if it were an older top tier gun with a beat up stock that was purchased cheap enough to justify the expense.

If you want a project gun look for something used at a good price and go from their. Otherwise buy something closer to what you really want.

 

[splithoof]

You will have excellent results with the Ruger Hawkeye Compact. They are robust, reliable, reasonably accurate, and affordable. I would also spend some money on a quality optic, not some Walmart cheapo. Ruger offers that in a laminated stock version, with stainless action.
To answer your question, IMO it is better to buy the complete rifle first, then customize as you go along if you wish. Shoot it a lot first using a sling and field positions, not just a bench. You will likely find it to be very close to what you need it for, without too much extra stuff.
My only dislike of the Hawkeye Compact is that it does not come from the factory with a useful set of iron sights.

 

[toiville2feathers]

A model 70 compact in a 7mm-08 is a hard gun to find. As a matter of fact I don't think they make them any more. I not claiming they are collector guns yet, but they will sure keep their value better than a project rifle. Check around, just see if you can find another one.
I have one and I am extremely pleased with it. That is the most balanced, comes up easily to sight, rifle that I have ever handled. My daughter used it this fall when she and her husband went elk hunting in Idaho. Her MIL & SIL also use 7mm-08's. She shot a nice 4 x5 bull at 260 yards with Barnes triple shock 140's, 1 shot through the boiler room, he didn't run 75 yards after that shot. Her MIL & SIL also use 7mm-08'sI definitely would advise you to get the 70 compact. You won't regret it .

 

[Captcurt]

One of my favorites.

I had a Ruger 77 compact in 260 that was close to perfect for my style of hunting. Wasn't crazy about the laminate stock and stainless though. I will have a walnut/blue one of these days. 120gr Speer HotCor was dynomite on whitetails and Nosler makes a 100gr that will sizzle.

 

[browningguy]

Or is that the firearm equivalent of putting on a huge muffler on a Honda Civic?

Usually that! Just based on the guns I often see at the range.

If you want to build a nice gun it won't be cheaper than buying factory, and if it matters it won't have the resale value. If you are building a nice gun to get exactly what you want then it's worth it. I have 2 customs in .275 Rigby and .458 Winchester built on Mauser actions, because I wanted a specific rifle and no one made it. And even using a composite stock they cost more than most good factory rifles.

To make a Boyd's stock look and fit well costs time and skill, or money. Properly fit, pillar bedded, sanded and finished smoothly, simple checkering pattern, it all adds up.

 

[Gtscotty]

I don't think I would go through a 90 day waiting period to cheap out in the end. If I was you I'd get as nice a rifle as I could reasonably buy. I'm partial to Winchester 70's, X-bolts and Tikka's in the Sub-$1k range, so I would look at them. You can always fiddle with dumping money in a rifle build later after you already have a decent rifle in the safe. BTW, where do you live that there is a 90 day waiting period for long arms?

 

[HoeMuffin]

Thanks all for the advice, I live in NYC, so in addition to a 90 day waiting period between rifle purchases, I can't have a rifle that holds more than 5 rounds. Will definitely look more closely at the first three then.

I did try out the Tikka (there is actually a Beretta store in NYC, though they cater more to the Beretta lifestyle then the guns proper), I found the length of pull a little bit long for me, at least in the wood stock version. Same with the Winchester Model 70 - they're not unmanageable, but it just felt a little longer to me then I would have liked. Haven't been able to try out an x-bolt yet, though I do like the idea of a tang-mounted safety. I found the Ruger compact (at least the walnut version) fits me perfectly, so I'm assuming anything with around that length of pull would work nearly as well. I still have some time before I make a decision, so I guess at least there's that. Kind of a hassle finding places with rifles in stock, unfortunately.

 

[Stony]

It's no big deal to whack off an inch or whatever off of a stock. Basically any gunsmith that deals with rifles could do it for you, or you could do it yourself. Just cut it off square and remount your recoil pad and reshape it to fit the new contour.
I wouldn't base my decision on what to buy solely on the length of the stock.

 

[HexHead]

Go with the Weatherby Vanguard Series 2. You can get the Sport which has a nice matte finish wooden stock and get it fitted to your preference.

Does that Ruger American come with a sub-MOA guarantee right out of the box?

 

[ford8nr]

If it's a first rifle I'd go with quality. A Ruger M77 or Win M70 would do you well. Latter on you can build a project gun. I have both types, yet my go to deer gun is a M77 in .308, just have an overall confidance factor with that gun. I am in the process of restocking a M70 Lightweight 30-06 so we'll see

 

[urbaneruralite]

A direct comparison would be the Ruger American and X-Bolt. To get the RAR up to the X-Bolt you'd need to have the metal refinished. The only aftermarket stock at this point is the wood or laminate from Boyd's. One of those would need some fitting and refinishing to come up to the Browning product.

A rough estimate of the above shows me the Browning is actually cheaper than a RAR made up to an equivalent level of fit and finish. I expect such would be the case with most rifles.

 

[FiveInADime]

If it's a first rifle I'd go with quality. A Ruger M77 or Win M70 would do you well. Latter on you can build a project gun. I have both types, yet my go to deer gun is a M77 in .308, just have an overall confidance factor with that gun. I am in the process of restocking a M70 Lightweight 30-06 so we'll see

Bingo,

Buy once, cry once. If you had a stable of nice guns and were going to futz with improving a budget rifle that would make a little more sense. I took a stainless Marlin X7 and put a .260Rem Shilen barrel and a walnut Boyd's stock on it and it is a nice gun but it will never be a Winchester M70 (The only design I truly love).


Edit: I think a M70 FWT is available in 7x57 currently. That would be just as good as the 7mm-08, IMO.

 

[onegunred]

HoeMuffin, in case you have not committed to anything yet, take a look at the Weatherbys. I was in Sportsmans yesterday and they have a Weatherby Vanguard on sale for less than $500.00. I would buy one now but I'm holding onto the money I got from selling my last Weatherby till spring, having a caliber debate.

 

[ford8nr]

Actually my M70 wasn't a project rifle to begin with. Got a push feed M70 with a Leupold VX3 scope for a good deal. Came to find out I hate the thin featherweight laminate stock it came in. My REAL project gun is a Savage Axis (without accu trigger) in .223. I had started a thread just to let you guys follow my journey with that gun.

 

[fotheringill]

I think the OP question was whether to improve a less expensive rifle NIB or purchase a more expensive NIB.

I would (and have) done both. With casting aspersions on ANY manufacturer, there are reasons why a $1000 rifle costs $1000 and a $250 rifle costs $250. That is an extreme comparison but valid.

Take a Ruger American for $250, or Marlin or Remington and a CZ 527 $600+ or so. It has been my experience that no matter what you do to the less expensive rifle, i.e. new stock, pillaring, bedding or whatever, it will never shoot as well as the CZ.

If you truly enjoy working on the rifle and don't care what the budget is for improvements, by all means, work on it to your heart's content, BUT you won't make a silk purse ......

 

[teetertotter]

I think the OP question was whether to improve a less expensive rifle NIB or purchase a more expensive NIB.

I would (and have) done both. With casting aspersions on ANY manufacturer, there are reasons why a $1000 rifle costs $1000 and a $250 rifle costs $250. That is an extreme comparison but valid.

Take a Ruger American for $250, or Marlin or Remington and a CZ 527 $600+ or so. It has been my experience that no matter what you do to the less expensive rifle, i.e. new stock, pillaring, bedding or whatever, it will never shoot as well as the CZ.

If you truly enjoy working on the rifle and don't care what the budget is for improvements, by all means, work on it to your heart's content, BUT you won't make a silk purse ......

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567027&highlight=ruger+american

This might change your mind on how accurate the Ruger Ameircan, being accurate. It is in the ammo for that barrel. One Forum has recognized the Ruger American just might be the new entrance level rifle for NRA Smallbore Metallic Silhoutte over the CZ 452 or 455 American. Just to let everyone know.

 

[Savage99]

These days I like the Kimber rifles as they have true CRF, excellent three position wing safeties that control the firing pin and are accurate, affordable and made in the USA.

Shop around and pick out a Kimber Classic 84M with wood you like.

That's the fun of guns!

 

[DRYHUMOR]

Winchester Model 70 Compact or Remington Model 7 might be worth looking at (I have both). Don't hesitate to buy one in a synthetic stock and then get a wood stock to put it in. The Vanguard Sporters are sharp looking; and, I've seen a couple with great wood. The Vanguards have 24 inch barrels which is nice (and kind of rare for a short action nowadays)

I just bought a M70 in 7mm08, an Ultimate Shadow. I already had a nice factory wood stock that it will end up in.

 

[Coltdriver]

I have a stainless Ruger Compact. They are great rifles.

The problem with a project rifle will show up if you just start adding things up.

It takes nothing to get $1000 into a project rifle. Just add the cost of a receiver and stock to a good barrel then have the barrel fitted and you are already into a lot of money and there is no guarantee that it shoots! Mausers look great till you have over a grand in one!

My Ruger is a woods rifle at 6 1/2 pounds with a short very light barrel. It is not for target shooting. It is for carrying and hunting with. I have had a few of the M77 type Rugers and they all worked great for me although I did work up loads for each one of them.

If you have the money for a $1000 plus rifle then there is another world of great ready to go rifles to look at. Otherwise the Ruger Compact is a great choice.

 

[MCMXI]

These days I like the Kimber rifles as they have true CRF, excellent three position wing safeties that control the firing pin and are accurate, affordable and made in the USA.

Shop around and pick out a Kimber Classic 84M with wood you like.

And don't forget that the wood stocks have hand checkering! I don't think people realize the value for money that Kimber rifles offer.

 

[gamestalker]

I've always preferred tuning a rifle myself. I've bought a number of used beat up neglected bolt guns on the cheap, then worked on them, usually getting stellar performance with just a few inexpensive modifications and cleaning.

GS

 

[Cee Zee]

I've always figured it to be cheaper to go ahead and buy what you want to start. A person ends up tossing gun parts in a drawer or a box if they go the upgrade route. By the time you get where you wanted to be all along you have the original gun spread out in a box. You could put those parts back together and sell them as a project gun for the next person I guess. But think about it. You buy a fixer upper and you replace the barrel, the trigger, the stock and what do you have left? Not a lot. So you're really tossing half a gun into a box. If you buy a really nice gun to start you won't end up paying for good parts and for the parts you tossed in a box.

There's always something you can do to make a gun better though. It seems that way anyway. So even if you buy top of the line you can still improve on it later.

When I wanted a good long range plinker I thought about going the Savage upgrade route where you start with a 110 and upgrade parts over time. But then I realized I was going to end up with a rifle that I could pretty much buy right off the rack so that's what I did. I bought a 12 LRPV with the target AccuTrigger which is a pretty high starting point. Sure there are better parts available but the improvements come expensive and they don't give you nearly the bump you get when you upgrade a stock 110 barrel to a good aftermarket barrel. So I've pretty much stayed with the stock configuration. Besides if it could shoot any better than it does it would take a better shooter than me to make it happen anyway. In other words the rifle is a better shooter than I am so until I can squeeze out every bit of accuracy from what I have I don't see the point of upgrading. I did upgrade the scope after my original choice became obviously out of it's league with that rifle.

 

[redneck2]

And, when you're done dumping money into a project gun, you've got maybe 2-3x what it cost originally and it's worth less than when you started.

I've got some older Remington rifles that were made when Remington made good stuff. I could buy a Shilen or Kreiger barrel that would make them better shooters than any factory barrel, and they're worth the same or less than when I started.

If you're gonna keep it, shoot it, and love, it knock yourself out and go for it. But, you'd better love it or get ready to take a big hit if you sell it

My last three rifles have all been CZ's. Only shot two of them so far, but it would be incredibly rare to find a CZ that won't shoot very well. My .204 shoots .4's at 100 and my 453 .22 does as well or better at 50.

You're ready to go out of the box.