KMDavenport
Member
I'm new to rifle hunting and not wanting to break the bank on a new gun, but would like a good gun for the money. I'm looking at the Ruger American, Mauser m18, and the Weatherby Vanguard. Any opinions would be appreciated.
Buying first hunting rifle
- Thread starter KMDavenport
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I am familiar with the Ruger and the Weatherby. Both are fine rifles. The Ruger is likely lower cost, some don’t care for the looks if that matters to you. The Ruger is known to be quite accurate. I own one in .243 and for what I have into it you’d be hard pressed to do better. The Vanguard is a little nicer, probably a better trigger and comes with a 1 moa accuracy guarantee if that matters to you. Most would say it is likely a little nicer than the Ruger, but it does cost more.
IMHO you can’t go wrong with either. Go handle a couple and see which works for you.
Jeff
IMHO you can’t go wrong with either. Go handle a couple and see which works for you.
Jeff
Random 8
Member
All 3 are quality rifles. I'd lean towards the Ruger, just personal preference, but all 3 will do the job. Pick which one feels right.
Ive owned and like all 3. The rugers the best deal in budget rifle on the market IMO, cdnn has them for sub300 bucks last I looked.
M18 would be the NICEST budget rifle, with the best synthetic stock, and trigger (which is also synthetic, with metal inserts).
The Howa/wby is more of a traditional middle class rifle. Excellent value, but the wood wby stocks are kinda chubby, and I don't really care for the hard lines of the synthetics forend.
The M18 and wby also have 3 position locking bolt safeties, the rugers the only gun I've ever had pop open on me.
Accuracy wise, my m-18 edged my rugers, which beat my vanguard and 1500. BUT the worst group ANY of them shot was still under 1.5moa.
I think in a hunting gun and with work any of them will be about equal in performance.
Fit and function wise all are quite good.
If there's a real difference between them, it's that the Ruger and M18 are more modern feeling designs. Lighter, shorter bolt lifts, stiffer actions with smaller ports, and way more plastic.
The WBY even the synthetics are more in line with "traditional" hunting rifles. Heavier, hinged floor plate, open top reciever (and the only one you can easily single load), and very little plastic beyond the stock.
Honestly I'd really suggest trying to handle them and just picking the one that feels best, you'll get good service from any of them.
M18 would be the NICEST budget rifle, with the best synthetic stock, and trigger (which is also synthetic, with metal inserts).
The Howa/wby is more of a traditional middle class rifle. Excellent value, but the wood wby stocks are kinda chubby, and I don't really care for the hard lines of the synthetics forend.
The M18 and wby also have 3 position locking bolt safeties, the rugers the only gun I've ever had pop open on me.
Accuracy wise, my m-18 edged my rugers, which beat my vanguard and 1500. BUT the worst group ANY of them shot was still under 1.5moa.
I think in a hunting gun and with work any of them will be about equal in performance.
Fit and function wise all are quite good.
If there's a real difference between them, it's that the Ruger and M18 are more modern feeling designs. Lighter, shorter bolt lifts, stiffer actions with smaller ports, and way more plastic.
The WBY even the synthetics are more in line with "traditional" hunting rifles. Heavier, hinged floor plate, open top reciever (and the only one you can easily single load), and very little plastic beyond the stock.
Honestly I'd really suggest trying to handle them and just picking the one that feels best, you'll get good service from any of them.
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troy fairweather
Member
I can recommend the m18. The rugers are good to I just like the mauser better.
mgmorden
Member
Loonwulf's analysis is accurate: the Ruger and Mauser are more modern designs, the Weatherby is more traditional. With that in mind though my preference would be for the Weatherby. I'm personally not a fan of detachable magazines in bolt/hunting guns - heck even if the gun will hold more I typically only load 2 or 3 rounds and am never going to do an "on the clock" reload while deer hunting. A magazine is just another thing to lose (and I've found my share of used bolt guns on the racks of gun shops missing their magazine). I'd prefer a blind mag to detachable, but a floorplate is the best option - hinged being the best version of that. I also like the more open action - if anything goes wrong it's just more room to fiddle in there compared to the more closed off designs with just a small ejection port. Prior to them being discontinued I really was a big proponent of the Marlin X7 series rifles as a budget option and the Vanguard is much more along that line.
At the end of the day though, its all preference. Any of the three will shoot accurately and will be a perfectly serviceable hunting rifle.
At the end of the day though, its all preference. Any of the three will shoot accurately and will be a perfectly serviceable hunting rifle.
cdb1
Member
You and I think alike. I actually prefer blind over hinged floorplate. I don’t own a bolt action rifle with a DBM and hopefully never will.
I’ll take a Vanguard any day over the other two for the same reasons as you. Number one is I can’t stand tiny loading/ejection ports. I also like the traditional look of the Vanguard and feel it’s a better quality rifle than the RAR and M18 and I don’t care for DBM’s. I have two Vanguards, a .243 and 30-06. My daughter has a .243 and my son and SIL have 30-06’s. Of the three my second choice would be M18 by a good margin over the RAR.
FL-NC
Member
Ruger American here. My 6.5 CM predator is a $400 rifle that shoots like a $1,000+ rifle.
It is difficult to tell someone what to like/ purchase - I can only tell you what I like and it would be the Weatherby, the M18 and the Ruger in that order. You owe it to yourself to handle all three models armed with forum opinions and select what you like. Select the rifle that your gut likes and not necessarily what we like - the fun is the rifle shopping.
I've only seen one M18 in person and it seems like a nice rifle. But the one I saw was overpriced at $650 when you can get the Ruger for closer to $300. I've seen the Mauser advertised at closer to $400. At that price I'd be tempted.
I've had great luck with the Ruger Predator versions. They have a bit heavier barrel than the standard rifle and every one I've shot was outstanding. As a brand the only other rifles I've shot that equal them in accuracy is Tikka. Speaking of Tikka, that would be another option that I'd recommend. The blue versions are usually priced at around $599, SS at about $750. I like SS, but it isn't worth $150 more to me.
I've had several Vanguards over the years. They are a solid, conventionally built rifle. But none came close to the accuracy I've gotten from RAR or Tikka. They are also the heaviest commonly made rifle. I can scope a Tikka or Ruger and keep weight around 7 1/4 lbs. That is 1/2 lb less than a Vanguard weighs out of the box with no optics mounted.
Closed top action vs open. It took me a while to come around to DBM's on bolt rifles. I've always preferred the traditional look of a floorplate or blind magazine. But functionality is winning me over. The rifle actions with enclosed tops like the Ruger, Tikka, TC Venture, Savage Axis and others are simply proving to be more accurate than the old school open top actions since the action is stiffer. The only way to load those is with a DBM.
Which also eliminates another major hurdle to accuracy. Having an internal box magazine or floorplate binding the action is a common issue that hurts accuracy. It is certainly possible to build accurate rifles with them. But it adds another layer of difficulty and cost to do so.
Using modern designs is why this can happen at such a low cost.
I've had great luck with the Ruger Predator versions. They have a bit heavier barrel than the standard rifle and every one I've shot was outstanding. As a brand the only other rifles I've shot that equal them in accuracy is Tikka. Speaking of Tikka, that would be another option that I'd recommend. The blue versions are usually priced at around $599, SS at about $750. I like SS, but it isn't worth $150 more to me.
I've had several Vanguards over the years. They are a solid, conventionally built rifle. But none came close to the accuracy I've gotten from RAR or Tikka. They are also the heaviest commonly made rifle. I can scope a Tikka or Ruger and keep weight around 7 1/4 lbs. That is 1/2 lb less than a Vanguard weighs out of the box with no optics mounted.
Closed top action vs open. It took me a while to come around to DBM's on bolt rifles. I've always preferred the traditional look of a floorplate or blind magazine. But functionality is winning me over. The rifle actions with enclosed tops like the Ruger, Tikka, TC Venture, Savage Axis and others are simply proving to be more accurate than the old school open top actions since the action is stiffer. The only way to load those is with a DBM.
Which also eliminates another major hurdle to accuracy. Having an internal box magazine or floorplate binding the action is a common issue that hurts accuracy. It is certainly possible to build accurate rifles with them. But it adds another layer of difficulty and cost to do so.
Using modern designs is why this can happen at such a low cost.
WestKentucky
Member
I like detachable magazines. There are supposedly several states where rifles cannot legally be loaded while in the vehicle, so if it’s as simple as sticking a mag in and taking it out at the end of the day then your in good shape.
JFrank
Member
I believe Ruger America is made in Arizona, someone correct me if I’m wrong.
The last Ruger firearm I had ( Blackhawk) was built very well and shot great.
My gun smith says the Ruger receiver is very strong with a short bolt throw 60 degree iirc
The last Ruger firearm I had ( Blackhawk) was built very well and shot great.
My gun smith says the Ruger receiver is very strong with a short bolt throw 60 degree iirc
You don't say what it's chambered in, twist matters bro.
OP
OP
KMDavenport
Member
It's going to be .308, as I am familiar with the caliber.
Many thanks for the information that has been given so far. I didn't realise that the Ruger and Mauser's receiver was that closed off. Seems like that would limit your ability to clear a malfunction.
You might consider a Kimber which has a Mauser action type with wing safety aka Model 70 and is fully controlled round feed and has the traditional open action and is I bet about a pound or more lighter.
I think the things that are driving the "port" type design in bolts guns is improved stiffness (long range shooting is the thing now and so it is the fashion design now) and reduced manufacturing cost because less machine work is needed and the port style actions lend themselves to simplified and reduced cost for right or left hand versions. A possible third driver is reduced weight, while it might seem to be heavier, the required stiffness can be accomplished with much less material elsewhere. The ports are not all that small and you can easily clear an issue.
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armedwalleye
Member
I hate anything that rattles, so any removable magazine for me needs to clip solidly to the floorplate like a Browning A bolt rather than remove completely to be inserted into a hole. Just my $.02. As to rifle choices for the group, I have none of the three, so don't feel qualified to offer an opinion there.
.455_Hunter
Member
I would go for the Vanguard. It's not a study in how much plastic we can use and still get away with it. Howa makes a good product.
JFrank
Member
J
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dranrab
Member
I used to be a Ruger nut. I still have quite a few. I have had my last QC issue with them though, so for that reason they are off the table. I suspect the Mauser is a pretty good choice. I KNOW the Weatherby is a good choice. In sporter weight configuration, Weatherby is going to be heavier. Not an issue if you are stand hunting.
dranrab
Member
If you are looking for a 308 and are not opposed to Ruger, I'd go this route rather than the American. It comes with quality rings, so factor that into the financial equation.
https://www.cdnnsports.com/308-hm77rfp-22-syn.html?___SID=U#.Xz_kTIjYrrc
If you have never ordered a gun online, it's ridiculously simple. I used to be afraid to do it for fear it would be complicated. If you are willing to consider buying online and have any questions, fire away!
https://www.cdnnsports.com/308-hm77rfp-22-syn.html?___SID=U#.Xz_kTIjYrrc
If you have never ordered a gun online, it's ridiculously simple. I used to be afraid to do it for fear it would be complicated. If you are willing to consider buying online and have any questions, fire away!
Garandimal
member
Don't overlook the Mossberg® Patriot™ - Vortex® Scoped Combos... Currently ~ $550 for the walnut stocked.
... or especially the Synthetic, if you are on a budget, currently ~ $450.
GR
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Arkansas Paul
Member
I have a Weatherby Vanguard and have shot a Ruger American.
I prefer the Weatherby of those 2.
It doesn't have that cheap toy feel, and while I am a huge Ruger fan, the American just feels cheap to me. There may be some aftermarket stocks that help that.
The Weatherby feels like a quality firearm right out of the box.
Now, it is heavy, know that. That's my only knock on the rifle, but it has a benefit too. It tames the recoil.
I am intrigued by the Mauser M18, but I have never handled one so can't comment on them.
I prefer the Weatherby of those 2.
It doesn't have that cheap toy feel, and while I am a huge Ruger fan, the American just feels cheap to me. There may be some aftermarket stocks that help that.
The Weatherby feels like a quality firearm right out of the box.
Now, it is heavy, know that. That's my only knock on the rifle, but it has a benefit too. It tames the recoil.
I am intrigued by the Mauser M18, but I have never handled one so can't comment on them.
OP
OP
KMDavenport
Member
From what I've read on them and talking to people I know, the general consensus is that they're hit or miss on the quality. I'd rather buy something that has a better reputation for accuracy and reliability.
Garandimal
member
Well...
Got Two(2) Patriot Vortex Scoped Synthetics in .270 WCF, for my boys... both are ~ 1.5 MOA accurate with factory ammo. $400/pop.
Any rifle can be ammo picky.
Lot of rifle for the price.
Your call.
GR
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