buying an In line?

[tequillaeagle]

ok i would like ot buy a in line and there are so many choices out there all i know is that i want a 50 cal and w a thumb hole stock bc i think its more comfortable. can u all get me in the right direction please.

 

[frontiergander]

check out the CVA Accura and the CVA Optima * New version* Very comfortable thumbhole stock and excellent triggers.

www.cabelas.com for the Accura
www.rrarms.com for the Optima

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Good rifle. In addition I might add, you may want to check out the new Traditions Vortek..Hard to believe that you could go wrong with either the CVA or the Traditions....

 

[LaserSpot]

This is going to make the other guys mad, but buy American. Some of the imports from CVA and Traditions are fine, but some tend to explode and send large metals parts into your face. See the safety section of:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm

Also see: http://cvaguncases.com/Case___Information_Page.html


How about this one:
http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/omega.php

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Not meaning to be disrespectful Mr. LaserSpot (don't care if you take it that way) but you're typing to one old man here that know's better and can see through what you're trying to sell here, and what I just stated here is as close to a coherent answer as I'm willing to bother giving you. You have yourself a good day now....

 

[frontiergander]

Laserspot you are only getting fooled into believing Wakemans scare tactics. I shoot THOUSANDS *4,000-6,000* rounds from my CVA muzzleloaders each year and have been shooting them since i was 14 years old and never once have i come close to finding any safety issues.

To this date, TC has more lawsuits against them for gun failures than any other muzzleloading company THIS year.

So the guy american dont mean nothing.

 

[LaserSpot]

I didn't hear about the TC lawsuits, what are they getting sued for?

Any USA models you do like? What do you think of Savage? http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10MLBTSS II

 

[frontiergander]

smokeless muzzleloading here isnt legal + those vent liners gets expensive having to change them out every 70-100 shots. I'd get going through one every 2 to 3 days depending how my shooting mood is LOL.

I had an Knight LK93 that was a nice shooter. I have a hard time shooting any American made to be honest. Knight, TC stocks normally do not fit me well, either the LOP is to short or long, or i simply cant hunker my face down enough to get the open sights into view.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I own 2 CVA muzzleloaders, one of the older Buckhorns and an Optima Elite. Never had a problem and they're both plenty accurate. Waly World here has a stainless Optima with the thumbhole stock for I believe $277. Great rifle.

 

[LaserSpot]

smokeless muzzleloading here isnt legal + those vent liners gets expensive having to change them out every 70-100 shots.

The Savage is rated for smokeless, but that doesn't mean you should use smokeless powder. I'm sure the vent liner lasts a lot longer if you shoot with black powder.

I had an Knight LK93 that was a nice shooter. I have a hard time shooting any American made to be honest.

I wonder why Knight Rifles closed down? I'm not saying that anything made in America is better than any import, but some countries don't have a work force with the same level of engineering skill, knowledge of metallurgy, and respect for quality control. I wouldn't buy a new gun from a country than can't make a good car.

I shoot THOUSANDS *4,000-6,000* rounds from my CVA muzzleloaders each year and have been shooting them since i was 14 years old and never once have i come close to finding any safety issues.

I'm not saying that these guns aren't all safe with recommended, or even with excessive loads. You can't always find safety issues without testing to destruction. Any competent engineer, designing anything critical to safety, will build in a huge safety factor (like 3x or 4x). I'm more concerned about those times when Bubba A forgets to unload his rifle after hunting season. Couple years go by and Bubba B asks to borrow it. Bubba B rams down another load and shoots it. This type of thing happens all the time; the proper punishment is a sore shoulder, not a piece of metal in the brain.

 

[frontiergander]

CVA's will blow with 600gr T7 3f and THREE 444gr Powerbelts stacked on top of one another. Anyone that reloads that many times and cant see half the ramrod stickin out, surely is a huge fool.

I accidently loaded up 100gr IMR White hots, set it to the side for couple weeks *rain* and then went to shoot it but i loaded 80gr American Pioneer 2f and a 300gr Thor On top. That was 600gr bullet with 180gr powder. Sure kicked the stuffing out of me.

I have no interest in savage. Not when they run $600 +. I got a CVA Apex 50cal and 30-06 barrel for $900 and some change.
http://hpmuzzleloading.com/Alert2.html

 

[LaserSpot]

frontiergander, that was ugly! At least it was his left hand, not his face.

I wish they would mill a groove down the top of those barrels to direct the blast, or maybe a pressure relief plug like my pressure cooker has; might have saved the guys thumb.

 

[LaserSpot]

This is interesting; sabots are safer than full diameter bullets:

Savage has done extensive pressure testing with the rifle and smokeless powders. They have discovered that the plastic sabot serves as a pressure relief valve. Once pressures reach a certain level, no matter what powder is fired behind the saboted bullet, the sabot comes apart and excess pressures exit through the muzzle. In fact, the company has fired the rifle, using a remote triggering device, with loads of Unique which would totally destroy a centerfire . . . without any damage to the Model 10ML.

http://www.gunweek.com/2000/feature0710.html

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

XXXX....Sorry. Was trying to complement Savage but wandered too far afield from this thread and from Black Powder firearms....

 

[LaserSpot]

tequillaeagle, hope we've got you pointed in the right direction.

 

[frontiergander]

no such thing as one projectile being saver than the other. An obstruction is an obstruction either way you look at it. Most sabots are not exactly what you'd call easy loading. They all take more pressure to load than say a powerbelt or slick load sabot.

Anything thats short started off the charge is an ugly scene waiting to happen.
http://gandersmuzzleloadingblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/rush-it-this-could-happen-to-you.html

 

[LaserSpot]

no such thing as one projectile being saver than the other. An obstruction is an obstruction either way you look at it.

Not if the obstruction disintegrates before the gun blows up. A .45 caliber bullet will not obstruct a .50 caliber barrel unless it's in a sabot. If the gun can withstand enough pressure to shred the sabot, the obstruction is cleared before the gun blows up. Once the plastic sabot is gone, there's plenty of space for the gas to get past the projectile and relief the pressure.

Because of this pressure relief effect, they're claiming that the Savage could withstand practically any load behind a single plastic-saboted projectile.

 

[LaserSpot]

However, this one blew up on a saboted bullet, so I wouldn't count on the "pressure relief" effect of sabots: http://hpmuzzleloading.com/Alert.html

 

[scythefwd]

Laser - I had a thread a while back discussing the safety of CVA firearms. There was a batch of firearms that were recalled due to poor manufacturing. This was any inline made in 95 and 96. Of the rest of those guns on the cvaguncases.com, none of them have been guns that were mentioned in this thread. In fact, if you look at the models, you'll see no optima pro, optima elite, electra, or accura rifles on that list. I have yet to see any evidence that these weren't double charges, gross over charges (say 160gr of 777) etc. I'm not saying every one of them are, but that is very FEW failures considering the number of inlines they sell every year. I don't think they sell anything but break actions anymore, and there are even fewer failures of those.

EDIT: So far, I have found 2 optima, and a total of 6 break action rifles. No other info is included to determine if there was other issues. I know I had trouble seating my second shot in mine. It felt seated but there was at least .5 inches between the powder and the projectile. I could see some of these explosions resulting from that happening, especially if they were using full 150gr loads and a heavy projectile. There are 60 ish cases, many involving rifles from a recalled time period and a different barrel manufacturer out of thousands of rifles sold each year. Of the current models sold by cva, there are only 2 cases from the break actions and quite a few of the left overs for the bolt actions. The most damning evidence is against the bolt action design that cva was using. I didn't see any of the more recent productions of the bolt actions listed, but I could have missed it. All in all, there are only a few if any cases involving anything made in the last 5 years.

As to Toby and the 10ML, he was known for playing with smokeless/BP loads. They may not have blown the gun at the time, but they probably contributed in the demise of the rifle. You might notice that he is the only one making a ruckus out there about the savages... If there was a real problem, you'd hear more about it. This is the internet, people live to complain here.

 

[frontiergander]

on that guncase scare tactic site, you have to read the cases for hours at a time. There are MANY that used smokeless powder. If you dont read carefully, you'll skip right over it and not see it. No rifle out there can make up for stupidity. Heck, go to youtube and type in * gun blows up* and check out all the stuff!