Buying Brass in Florida

[mikemyers]

I've been reading "Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook", and slowed down when I got to page 27, talking about reloading brass. The things that got my attention were:

• "Brass should be kept segregated by lots and loaded accordingly."
• "Never load brass cases from an unknown source."
• "Handgunners often purchase reloaded ammunition before actually beginning to reload their own shells. Since it is impossible to tell how often such reloaded cases have been fired, or under what conditions, it is essetial that none of the cases from such ammo be reloaded."
• "Under typical circumstances handgun cases may be reloaded and fired as few as four times or as much as eight or more times.

After this, the book goes on to describe how to inspect cases, lubricate them, re-size, and re-inspect after re-sizing, all of which I vaguely remember from when I did this 30 years ago.


Based on the above suggestions, the large bags I have of my own reloaded brass cases from way back when, should probably be disposed of, as they were used over and over again. Some of the brass I've collected in the past year has been from purchased reloaded bullets, which the book is advising should not be reloaded again. Since it's all mixed together, I guess it's going to be disposed of as well.


If I follow through with what the book is recommending, I should be purchasing new brass, separating it by "group number", and then keeping records of which brass I reload, and when, so I'll know when the brass has been used so many times that maybe it should be disposed of.

(I guess I also need to set up my Lyman case trimmer, which I've never used, and learn how to do that properly - but that's another topic.)


So, my question here - what are the better places to buy good quality (not just "cheap") brass from in Florida. I've seen plastic bags full of brass at places such as Bass Pro Shops, but I suspect this is just an inexpensive supply of brass cases.... and I understand that if the brass isn't consistent, that reduces the potential accuracy of the reloaded rounds.

Has anyone had any experience with:
www.starlinebrass.com
Based on their web page, that seems to be a good source.

From what I think I've learned so far, reloading is not done just to "save money", but to improve your shooting accuracy. It seems pointless to me to do so many things "right", and then use any old cases I've somehow collected over the years. If I'm going to do everything else "by the book", I think I should be just as concerned about the brass cases as I'm trying to be about everything else.

 

[choppinlow]

Inspect your cases - if they are fine (no cracks, separation, within specs) load and shoot.

 

[oneounceload]

Agree; as to Starline, they make some of the best brass in the world. That said, I will pick up anything in a cartridge I shoot, clean inspect - and if OK load them up. I have well over a few dozen reloads in 38 brass.

 

[hanno]

Agree with choppinlow, especially for pistol.

Inspect your cases and if you don't see any splits or other defects, load away.
I started out sorting cases, keeping track of number of times reloaded, etc. Soon realized this was a waste of time. Now they all go into a bucket after cleaning/polishing and get reloaded. Some of these cases may have been reloaded 2 times, some 20. No way to tell nor do I care. When they split, they get tossed.

Starline is excellent brass. If you want to buy new brass, buy from Starline direct.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/

If you want once fired, there are many online sellers. I bought from Monmouth and was very happy with the brass they sent.
http://monmouthbrass.com/

You might find that even with shipping, buying online is cheaper than picking up a bag at your LGS.

 

[mstreddy]

Mike,
While a lot of us have been directing you to read and read some more, now I'll tell you to pull back a little and not take everything Lyman or Lee or Hornady says as gospel, particularly that bit about brass.

• "Brass should be kept segregated by lots and loaded accordingly."
• "Never load brass cases from an unknown source."
• "Handgunners often purchase reloaded ammunition before actually beginning to reload their own shells. Since it is impossible to tell how often such reloaded cases have been fired, or under what conditions, it is essetial that none of the cases from such ammo be reloaded."
• "Under typical circumstances handgun cases may be reloaded and fired as few as four times or as much as eight or more times.

1 - for pistol -- not really necessary. Clean, inspect, if good, load, repeat.
2 - where does once-fired, range pickups, bought online, etc., come from?
3 - refer to 1
4 - What???? Are they smoking weed? Seriously, handgun cases will outlast many, many firings before you lose them or they finally crack or split. Even rifle is common to last for 10 or more loadings.

Yes, you need to have a process to inspect and check the brass before loading. But, those guidelines from them are a bit over the top.

Eddy

 

[mstreddy]

From what I think I've learned so far, reloading is not done just to "save money", but to improve your shooting accuracy. It seems pointless to me to do so many things "right", and then use any old cases I've somehow collected over the years. If I'm going to do everything else "by the book", I think I should be just as concerned about the brass cases as I'm trying to be about everything else.

Yes, you are right, consistency is important, but if you are talking pistols mostly, or just plinking with an autoloading rifle, then the brass history is not as crucial. If you are shooting Bullseye or other competitions and you are a very good shot, then some small variations might make a difference. There was a post here a couple of weeks back discussing the merits of sorting pistol brass, particularly 9MM.

 

[Gadawg88]

"Brass should be kept segregated by lots and loaded accordingly."
"Never load brass cases from an unknown source."
"Handgunners often purchase reloaded ammunition before actually beginning to reload their own shells. Since it is impossible to tell how often such reloaded cases have been fired, or under what conditions, it is essetial that none of the cases from such ammo be reloaded."
"Under typical circumstances handgun cases may be reloaded and fired as few as four times or as much as eight or more times.

That is a load of generalized pure unadulterated lawyer speak! Inspect the brass you have, toss any with defects and use the rest. No need to buy new brass for target/plinking/practice rounds. I pick up every piece of abandoned range brass I come across. Sort it, clean it, inspect it, load it, shoot it - no problem.

 

[oneounceload]

Mike,
While a lot of us have been directing you to read and read some more, now I'll tell you to pull back a little and not take everything Lyman or Lee or Hornady says as gospel, particularly that bit about brass.

"Brass should be kept segregated by lots and loaded accordingly."
"Never load brass cases from an unknown source."
"Handgunners often purchase reloaded ammunition before actually beginning to reload their own shells. Since it is impossible to tell how often such reloaded cases have been fired, or under what conditions, it is essetial that none of the cases from such ammo be reloaded."
"Under typical circumstances handgun cases may be reloaded and fired as few as four times or as much as eight or more times.

1 - for pistol -- not really necessary. Clean, inspect, if good, load, repeat.
2 - where does once-fired, range pickups, bought online, etc., come from?
3 - refer to 1
4 - What???? Are they smoking weed? Seriously, handgun cases will outlast many, many firings before you lose them or they finally crack or split. Even rifle is common to last for 10 or more loadings.

Two names for their comments - either lawyer-speak or legalese - take your pick. I will bet that was written by lawyers and not by ballisticans.

 

[cfullgraf]

Comments additional to the good comments that have already been posted in red

• "Brass should be kept segregated by lots and loaded accordingly."
• "Never load brass cases from an unknown source."
• "Handgunners often purchase reloaded ammunition before actually beginning to reload their own shells. Since it is impossible to tell how often such reloaded cases have been fired, or under what conditions, it is essetial that none of the cases from such ammo be reloaded."
• "Under typical circumstances handgun cases may be reloaded and fired as few as four times or as much as eight or more times.

If you were shooting in competition, using the same brand and lot of brass is a good idea. For general shooting and plinking, it is not really necessary. Some brand of cases ar good to stay away from and that varies by cartridge and personnel preference.

If the cases are inspected, why not use them. But if the case looks crummy, be on the safe side and scrap it.

Handgun cases last a long time. I have 38 Special cases that I have been reloading for years. Some have been tumble so much, the nickel plating has worn off. When they split, they get tossed.

(I guess I also need to set up my Lyman case trimmer, which I've never used, and learn how to do that properly - but that's another topic.)

Trimming cases make for a more uniform crimp. This can be advantageous with revolver cartridges where the crimp can be helpful for uniform ignition. Not so much with auto pistol cases where you use a taper crimp. Generally, though, this is a one time thing. Many folks, including me, do not bother trimming handgun cases.


So, my question here - what are the better places to buy good quality (not just "cheap") brass from in Florida. I've seen plastic bags full of brass at places such as Bass Pro Shops, but I suspect this is just an inexpensive supply of brass cases.... and I understand that if the brass isn't consistent, that reduces the potential accuracy of the reloaded rounds.

In my early days, I'd buy and use about any case that I could get my hands on. No problems for the most part but expect a little loss when first prepping the cases. Now a days, I prefer to buy new cases when I buy casses. Handgun cases last so long, it seems to me to be a bit penny wise and pound foolish not to get new cases. But, it is not always possible to buy new.

Has anyone had any experience with:
www.starlinebrass.com
Based on their web page, that seems to be a good source.

Starline is good stuff.

From what I think I've learned so far, reloading is not done just to "save money", but to improve your shooting accuracy.

You will always save money per round by reloading. What you do with the savings is up to you. Some folks take the significant other out for dinner, others shoot more.

 

[JimKirk]

Mike M ... What kind of brass did you load when you was loading in the '80s?

 

[gamestalker]

BTW, if you are loading handgun, and you are using carbide dies, you don't need to lube the brass. Trimming is pretty much unnecessary unless your reloading rimmed brass, thus roll crimped for a revolver application.

Resize, do a quick inspection for any splits, prime, powder, and seat, done.

Mike, you reloaded back in the 80's, that having been said, you can just pick up where you left off, the process is the same. Yes, there have been some changes regarding powders and data, and some tools of convenience have been added, but outside of that, it's no different now, than it was then. Your really making this so much more complicated than it really is.

Now if you ever decide to do bottle neck, trimming, sorting, and a more precise manner of brass prep in general comes into play, but not for handgun usually.

GS

 

[notaglockfanboy]

I am with Gamestalker. I know you are being cautious, but you are really overthinking this. If you reloaded in the 80s, you can reload now. The process has not changed, some powder and tools have. Shoot, resize/decap, inspect brass, prime, charge, seat a bullet, and roll crimp or taper crimp, or don't crimp at all depending on cartridge and preference. Then do it all over again.

 

[jell-dog]

MM,
GREAT advice here from longtime reloaders!
I personally tumble, decap, size, inspect, then sort by length for reliable crimp for pistol brass.
This is for 380, 9mm pistols, my 38/357 revolver brass is trimmed once, then same process I use for prep of pistol brass is used.
This is just the way I do it, the suggestions of previous posters are excellent advice.
Use it till you loose it or it shows defects.
Just my 2c
JD

 

[mikemyers]

Yes, you are right, consistency is important, but if you are talking pistols mostly, or just plinking with an autoloading rifle, then the brass history is not as crucial. If you are shooting Bullseye or other competitions and you are a very good shot, then some small variations might make a difference. There was a post here a couple of weeks back discussing the merits of sorting pistol brass, particularly 9MM.

The only reason I would reload (other than the fact that I used to enjoy it) is because it might improve my group size. If it "saves money", fine, but the savings will never recover the money I'll have spent on the reloading gear.

 

[mikemyers]

Comments additional to the good comments that have already been posted in red

Thanks for all your feedback. Supposedly the Lyman "Pistol & Revolver Handbook" should be exactly what I should follow, but while all their reasoning seems to make sense, some of the warnings might not if I were using brass that I knew for a fact was good quality. I read everything - twice - from page 10 to page 75, and there are SO many things there than nobody ever told me before.

In my case, I'm only going target shooting, and when I come home, I put all the results into an Excel spreadsheet, which does a calculation based on every hole in that target, and tells me the "group size". Basically, it says "75% of your shots will fall in a 3.25" diameter group. You select whatever percentage you want to use this for.

Me? I'd like to see if properly reloaded ammunition will improve my group size..... but first I need to learn how to load properly. I'm getting there.

 

[mikemyers]

Mike M ... What kind of brass did you load when you was loading in the '80s?

I tried to re-use whatever I shot, and whatever I could find at the range. Some people gave me some brass. It was only 44 Special and 45 ACP; that's all I shot. Shot it, reloaded it, shot it again, and again, and again..... No cleaning cases, just re-lubricating them. By the time I finished, my fingers looked like they had been sprayed with gray paint. .....and my reloading area was in my kitchen, in a small apartment. I didn't know any better, about any of this....

 

[mikemyers]

.......Your really making this so much more complicated than it really is........

You're right. Sorry. Between the books I've been reading, and this discussion, and helping a relative set up his brand new 550 Dillon press, everything seems MUCH simpler to me than two weeks ago.


Oh yeah, last thing to post - we got the Dillon completed yesterday, and loaded a few 38 special rounds, slowly, one at a time, checking everything over and over and over. This morning we fired off those rounds. SO NICE!!! Minimal recoil, and (with my tiny sample of shots) better accuracy than I used to get with his gun! He's excited now, and so am I.



I'm going to shut up, and stop asking questions. I think I have more than enough information for now. Thanks to all of you!

 

[mstreddy]

but the savings will never recover the money I'll have spent on the reloading gear.

Mike, I'm going to comment on this -- it really depends on how much you shoot. If you are only shooting a couple of boxes of month, yes it will take long to pay for the gear. But, you have gear that you bought 30 years ago. I think it's safe to say it's paid off.

In any event, I'll give you two real examples.
1. A buddy of mine, Quags on this forum, started reloading a few months ago. He spent around $400 in equipment. Based on HIS monthly shooting habits, 400 9MM, 200 45 ACP, 200 38 Spcl, he paid off the equipment in around 2 months of loading/shooting.

2. In my case, over the last 3 or 4 years I have spent around $1800 on the equipment, and given my shooting habits, that payback is around 9-10 months.

If you would like further details, I can break down the calculations for you on how we reached those "savings" and payback periods.

 

[mstreddy]

On the brass question -- if you are loading for pistols, 44 and 45 as mentioned above - don't overthink it.
Shoot the rounds, reload them, shoot them, lather, rinse, repeat.
If they split -- chuck 'em, otherwise - see above line

 

[mikemyers]

'mstreddy', I'm not concerned with the cost "savings", whether or not it pays for itself or not. I'm also not really interested in saving money on my shooting. The reason I'm doing it, is because I used to really enjoy reloading, and shooting rounds that I loaded myself, and because I liked the way "my" rounds felt (recoil, accuracy, lack of misfires, etc.). Specifically, I'd like to reduce my group size, and I expect reloaded rounds to be better than what I buy at the stores.

Once upon a time, I knew "what to do", although not the "why". With a few minor changes, I'll be doing it more or less like before, but a bit more safely, and probably a LOT more accurately. Heck, I never knew I was supposed to keep checking the scale - I set things up once, and used the exact same setup for years! OK, I was very ignorant....

Thanks for your help. I only expect to be loading 38 Special, 44 Special, and 45 ACP, and I have lots of brass in all three - just need to organize it, inspect it, clean it, and inspect once more.

Curious - if you spent $1800 on equipment, and recovered it in 10 months, that's saving $180 every month. If you have actual numbers, I'd love to see them, so I could create a spreadsheet that was reasonably accurate.

As for me, I'd like to go to the range once a week, every week, and shoot one or two boxes of 38 or 44, and now that I've got .22 handguns, about the same number of .22 rounds as well. That's for half a year - I spend the other half doing volunteer work overseas, meaning no shooting practice.... :-(

 

[jell-dog]

Good luck on finding adequate (REASONABLEY PRICED) supplies of .22 shells

 

[mstreddy]

Mike,
I posted the above based on your comment of

the savings will never recover the money I'll have spent on the reloading gear.

Basically I figure the reloaded "box" cost of my loads, compare to factory ammo at current prices, and use the difference as my savings.
9MM costs me 4.75/50 for lead or 5.40/50 for plated. Compare to ~$12/50 retail. Savings ~7 per box -- 8 boxes per month = $56 month
45ACP loads 6.33/50; 22/50 retail; savings ~14/box -- 2 boxes/month = $28
380 loads 4.22/50; 16 retail; savings ~11/box -- 4 boxes/month = $44
38 Spcl 5.40/50; 16 retail; savings ~10.50/box -- 2 boxes/month = $21
223 Rem 3.50/20; 8 retail; savings ~ 4.50/box -- 10 boxes/month = $45
That's all based on my monthly shooting habits of my most common calibers. It's closer to $190 in monthly "savings".

If you would like, e-mail me and I'll send you a spreadsheet that I have for this.

I've posted the below info on other threads, but it helps explain the "savings" calculations.

... A real example - a buddy of mine just started and his equipment costs were around $410. Loading (and shooting) monthly amounts of 9MM (400 rounds), 45 ACP (200 rds), and 38 Special (200) - he will have his setup costs covered in 1.9 months when compared to the cost of factory ammo.
... Snip ...
buying bullets, either plated or lead, I load a box of 50 9MMs for around $5 on average. That's 6.3cents for the bullet (lead MBC), free brass, 2.5 cents for the primer, and around 1cent for the powder.
Now you compare that with the average box of factory ammo at around ~$12/50.
That's $7 savings per box *times* 20 boxes to a case of 1000 = $140 savings or payback of equipment.
Obviously, if a new reloader spends more on the setup then the payback will take longer -- assuming pistol rounds. But, we can "what if" it to death and only the individual, the OP, or anyone person can determine if it's WORTH IT for them.
I'll just add this to the whole payback question - having seen my buddy's example, I decided to plug in some of the values for my equipment -- I'm ignoring my RCBS Rock Chucker as that was paid off back around 1990. Since I "restarted" reloading in 2005, I got deeper into it in 2009/10 (interesting political climate and all). I bought a used Hornady LNL AP, some more dies, another LNL AP via a trade in program at Hornady, 22 die sets, and other assorted equipment -- my costs for this go around were around $1,800. Using my typical monthly shooting estimates of 400 rds 9MM, 200 - 380, 100 - 45 ACP, 100 - 38 Spcl, and 200 - 223s; my payback period was 9.1 months.

Again, it all comes down to, how much do you shoot? Which calibers will also factor, but the ROI or payback period is really inconsequential in the bigger scheme of things. In another thread I answered the question of how many rounds reloaded -- going back to 2005 (lost my earlier records) I have loaded over 21K rounds. So, a 9 month payback is easy -- for me.

 

[mstreddy]

J-D,

Good luck on finding adequate (REASONABLEY PRICED) supplies of .22 shells

I hear you brother, that's why I'm shooting more and more of my reloads and skipping the 22s more often.

 

[mstreddy]

Mike,

The reason I'm doing it, is...

Yes, those are all some of the the same reasons I'm reloading as well. Additionally, for me, it's the ready availability of ammo on my bench when the store shelves were bare. It's been a rough several years for shooters. It's improving, but, we're not out of the woods yet.

It's been quite satisfying to be able to shoot nearly every week, even the last tumultuous years, when a lot of folks scaled back, and not be worried about ammo availability. -- except for the unobtanium 22LR.

I have worked the numbers out of curiosity more than anything else, and because I like to play with Excel and calculations. I didn't even worry about my equipment costs until Quags figured out his and I decided to plug mine in.

 

[jell-dog]

mstreddy,
Lucky you don't buy factoy boxs of .357mag, locally, 1 box of 50 goes for $32.00/$37.50 each.
That's lead target/practice rounds!
And, no, I have never purchased.357mag, even to get brass.
Even if I bought STARELINE, I would be WAY ahead on cost savings with my first loadings, let alone re-loads
JD