Buying Guns online ?'s

[ParChaser]

We all see occasional deals online from forums and auction sites. How do we protect ourselves against fraudulent sellers?

Some sellers require money orders, certified bank funds, etc... I know the seller has to ship from a FFL, is there a way to still do a purchase and protect my money???
What responsibility/liability dose the shipping FFL carry??? If the Seller/Shippers FFL possess the sellers firearm and I send the money to the sellers FFL via certified funds, is the sellers FFL liable to ship if that was the agreement???

 

[RNB65]

Some sellers require money orders, certified bank funds, etc... I know the seller has to ship from a FFL, is there a way to still do a purchase and protect my money???

Pay with a credit card and your credit card company will offer fraud protection.

Pay with cash/check/money order and you're at the mercy of the seller. Welcome to the internet.

What responsibility/liability dose the shipping FFL carry??? If the Seller/Shippers FFL possess the sellers firearm and I send the money to the sellers FFL via certified funds, is the sellers FFL liable to ship if that was the agreement???

None, whatsoever. The FFL is just a middleman responsible for ensuring that the ATF gun transfer regulations have been me. He's not going to accept your payment. Payment is between you and the seller.

Do your homework. Your best chance for a trouble free transaction is to stick with reputable on-line retailers with a proven track record such as Bud's Gun Shop. On-line auction sites are always a crap shoot.

 

[Cannonball888]

Use common sense. It's kinda like eBay. Buy only from established dealers with great feedback. Any disputes are settled by the auction houses. I have bought 1 new gun from AuctionArms and 4 new and 2 used from Gunbroker with no problems whatsoever. It saved me hundreds of dollars compared to buying locally or at gunshows.

 

[Car Knocker]

I know the seller has to ship from a FFL

Some FFLs insist that any firearm they receive be shipped by an FFL but there is no federal law requiring this. There may be a few states with this requirement.

 

[MinnMooney]

In Minnesota (& Federal) there is no requirement that the gun be shipped by an FFL holder. Anyone can ship a firearm but it must be shipped TO a FFL holder.
There are companies the will hold your money in ESCRO until both parties are happy with the transaction and only then will your money be sent to the seller. It's not really cheap but if you aren't dealing with an established seller then it might just be the cheapest insurance that you'll ever buy. An unreputible seller, however, will not agree to escro'd funds.

 

[ParChaser]

If the sellers FFL posseses the firearm and I send the money to the FFL is he required to ship it? Could the FFL screw me if he posseses the firearm in question and not ship? WOuld his FFL liscense be in jeapordy?

 

[RNB65]

The seller doesn't need an FFL. The buyer needs an FFL.

 

[ParChaser]

If the buyer requires the seller to place the firearm with an FFL dealer before sending the funds would this be sufficient protection against a fraudulent seller?

 

[hotpig]

You might get a FFL to act as a broker but they may want a fee for doing so.

 

[gezzer]

Buy from a shop, you are not comfortable buying on line.

 

[no_problem]

Online fraud is a valid concern.

If you are uncomfortable buying online, definately go to a brick and mortar store.

 

[Zen21Tao]

I know the he law doesn't require it when dealing with a private individual, but I have always required the gun be shipped FROM a licensed FFL holder as well as TO my FFL holder. This is just an added CYA measure. I have actually found that most people respect this and even feel more comfortable that they are also dealing with an honest law abiding citizen.

Using a credit card is also as much of a risk as it a protective measure. On the one hand, you do get fraud protection, but on the other had you have just given your credit card to one more entity. If they are unscrupulous enough to steel your money for a gun, then they are probably unscrupulous enough to use you credit card info to steal you identity.

I would suggest possible using a postal money order when buying from private individual as if they scam you then they have committed mail fraud.

Bottom line, try to determine before hand the level of risk you are willing to take and the trust you are willing to place in people. For example, look for feed back sections, post counts, etc. that tell you this guy is honest and reputable. If you do decide to bear a little risk, then online deals can be a very good deal.

 

[toivo]

Many have said it, but I'll say it again: Just like with any online auction, buy only from a seller who has posted a LOT of sales and has really good feedback, like 97% to 100% positive. Read the feedback comments, and if there are any negatives, try to figure out what went wrong. There are some crackpot buyers out there too, so a few negatives don't necessarily kill the deal. Just be careful.

If it's a private seller, do a Whitepages.com search on the seller just to establish that the person does exist at a verified address. You might want to actually call and talk over the transaction; sometimes you can get a better feeling for a person on the phone than you can just by e-mail.

The FFL's only job is to satisfy the legal transfer requirements. They don't want to be bothered with your problem purchase. It's strictly "Buyer beware." But it can be done.

I have bought several guns (5 or 6) from online auctions and bulletin boards, and I haven't been burned yet, knock-on-wood.

 

[Bunkerbuster]

So far, i had good transction from reputable sites/FFLs/individual seller. However, my biggest concern was the lost packge.

 

[kali_jester]

Avoid paypal if at all possible

I just had a bad experience.

I think the seller was more incompetent than unethical, but paypal has a dispute resolution in which you have no leverage at all. Basically they sided with the seller. I had to threaten further legal action because not only were they 45 days late sending the gun, they did it in such a way that my FFL in California could not legally accept it. I'm still not sure of it's whereabouts.

Even though paypal used my american express card, my understanding is amex won't reimburse in paypal claims either.

It's the worst, but not the first problem I've had using paypal either.

 

[Dark_Harvest]

paypal will actually drop you if they find out you used their service to buy a gun. they are very much anti-gun, and anti-business.

once you've sent money through them, they will not in any way give you support.

i tried to stop a payment through them, and they wouldn't even give me the electronic payment info on my OWN money...

so i had my bank dispute the charge, and now paypal has locked my account until i prove through *PHYSICAL MAIL* that i exist at my own address as a real person...

i have discontinued using their service, as there are many alternatives... google actually offers the same service now, and any seller worth their salt will work with you...

good luck, and if you don't trust someone, absolutely skip them and go face to face... not to mention supporting your local shop is well worth the "savings" of dealing with someone you're not at all sure of...

 

[woody99]

RNB65 - Absolutely right with recommending Bud's Gun Shop. I just completed my first online purchase and bought from Bud's. Had my gun in hand four days after they received my payment. Great communication the whole way through and the lowest price I could find as well! ($336.)
Bought a Full size 9mm Witness in Wonder finish and can't wait to get it on the range.

 

[scurtis_34471]

I just make sure I stick with reputable dealers. I bought my VEPR from Gilbert's Guns and had a great experience. I just ordered a S&W M&P Compact 9mm from Bud's Gun Shop and their service has been great so far.

 

[jimmy]

I've bought quite a few guns online. I don't expect to save money on these transactions, because shipping plus the high transfer fee charged in my area an easily add $75 to the price of a gun. Instead, I buy guns online that rarely if ever appear in the local gunshop. I buy only from very reputable dealers and pay with a credit card. Since condition is important to me, I scrutinize the photographs critically for anything that could detract from condition and try to read between the lines of the descriptions. Even so, about a third of the guns I order this way are less than satisfactory to me. I send them back or trade them away, generally a money-losing proposition either way, due to shipping or whatever, but I at least get back most of what I paid. The bottom line is that buying guns online has brought me some interesting firearms I'm proud to own and wouldn't ordinarily have found, but also some memorable disappointments.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

As others have stated, no law requires it to be shipped from an FFL to the FFL on your side. Furthermore, unless your state says otherwise, firearms can be shipped without going through an FFL as long as it's in the same state (for instance, a seller in another part of your state can send you the gun if you're in the same state as the seller, the requirement to have the gun shipped to an FFL applies only when it crosses state lines, as in interstate commerce, although most sellers won't do so out of fear).

So, getting to my point, you alone are responsible for being careful, it's just like ebay, buyer beware. Buy from sellers with plenty of good feedback for selling (feedback from buying doesn't tell you anything about the person as a seller).

 

[bluetopper]

I have sold many guns on Gunbroker and I do not have a FFL and do not use one to do the sending. It's perfectly legal and I have done it without a hitch with great results and I have 100% positive feedback in doing so.

I also have bought many guns on Gunbroker and Auction Arms and have not been burned one time. If a seller has good feedback 99% of the time the transaction is going to go smootly and both parties will be pleased. Just as buying on Ebay.

 

[gezzer]

Yep feedback is the best indicator, mess up on your end being a newbie to online auctions and expect instant negative feedback. Make sure your spam filters are not blocking and most important for your comfort Spend the money for a phone call to the seller.

I have thousands of online sales and purchases and on the purchase side I can count 3 out of a few hundred that went bad however I have lost no money in this endeavor.

 

[foob]

When you send a postal money order, and he doesn't send the item, it's mail fraud. Never needed to, but I think postal inspectors will investigate. You will have his address and phone number anyway, you can try his local police department, find a accomodating cop to hunt him down.

I have bought quite a few firearms online and never failed to receive the firearm. Don't think the situation is as dire as some may think.

 

[SevenMichael]

Buying On-Line

Just a couple of comments.

First, I buy a lot of items on line and agree with all that you have to do some research (e.g., Google the name of the dealer you're buying from) before you trust the dealer.

About a month ago I bought my first gun and did it on line, from Big Sky Guns. They required an FFL transfer. Payment by credit card required an EXTRA 3% added to the cost; so, I took a chance and sent a check. My pistol shipped as soon as they received the check. Along the way, the seller's rep (Mike) was excellent in responding to e-mails and keeping me posted. Overall, it was an excellent experience.

On line purchase cost me $ 25 for the FFL transfer, but I got out of a 7% sales tax, which gave me a net savings of $45. Also, after comparing prices, I got a VERY competitive price and with shipping charges it ended up being the cheapest.

I always prefer credit cards because of the protection. As for AMEX, they DO take care of purchases through Pay-Pal. I had a dispute, and registered it with PayPal and AMEX both. AMEX stopped the payment, and took care of the problem before PayPal even responded. Ultimately, PayPal also decided in my favor; but it was a moot point by then.

Bottom Line: You can save money and have a good experience with on line purchases; but as with anything, "buyer beware !" and research the seller first !