A reminder about online sales and the risk involved

[JTHunter]

In the last 10 years, the only online purchase I made was for a Marlin 1894 on GB from a person in Colorado. I traded a couple of emails with him before the auction closed, mainly because I wanted to use a paper check instead of plastic. He was willing but made it clear that he would wait up to 5 business days to see if it cleared. The sale went smoothly and I was able to get an 1894 in .357 to go with my GP-100.
I had only been trying to close one of those auctions for over 2 years.

 

[drk1]

Last seller on GB that scamed me had over 950 positive posts and a brick and mortar store. Only accepted USPS MO. Sent him almost a thousand dollars for primers. He sent back a box with a piece of 2x4 in it with the word "sucker" written on it. Complained to GB.... got banned.... again. I'll never go back.

 

[Rshooter]

Bought and sold many times on GB. Once found a nice gun on Armslist but it did not feel right, it was a scam. Recently came across a gun website and called to check on them. They said they only accepted paypal and vinemo. I asked them how they do this and they said they do it all the time. Major red flag, they were a scam site.

 

[drobs]

I've bought a ton of guns off gunbroker. However I have my own personal rules for buying on there.

1. The seller must accept credit cards. I very rarely buy from a seller that only accepts Postal Money Orders. That seller must have good feedback.
2. The seller must have good feedback that is recent. I won't buy from a non-rated seller. I check the recent feedback from high volume sellers with lots of feedback.
3. The seller must list the shipping costs and the credit card fees.
4. I prefer the seller to have an FFL or ship through an FFL.

Sure I might've missed out on some deals from private sellers. However, I've never been screwed.

I look at the pictures that are provided of the gun. I've been buying from Gunbroker since 2001. In that time I've left only 1 F feedback on a seller that wouldn't return emails that he initiated and took forever to ship something. This was a high volume seller.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I almost got scammed here! $850 for a LeMatte, I asked veteran members here what to do. They said they never heard of the member and be cautious. That said, I disengage. Turns out, they/them scammed another member.

 

[rust collector]

Someone asked about doing an image search. I admit that I don't have much experience with that, but here is a link to a page that outlines the procedure. If others have suggestions, they are welcome. https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/1325808?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform=Desktop

 

[Chief TC]

I don't think I would buy something from a member here unless I interacted with them a long time or other people told me who they were and knew they had been a contributing member a long time. Anyone else would be too much risk. I think GunsInternational is the best way to go but you generally don't get good deals and then you are paying quite a bit for shipping and FFL fees. I did get lucky on a M1903A3. These things are going from 1500-2500 these days and the guy was selling it for 900 for whatever reason and included shipping, so another 50 to pick it up from my FFL. I have purchases items on Gunbroker but not firearms, so I don't know what they do do hold sellers accountable. GI verifies sellers by calling them directly and you pay 18 to post a listing for 3 months.

 

[Elkins45]

Last seller on GB that scamed me had over 950 positive posts and a brick and mortar store. Only accepted USPS MO. Sent him almost a thousand dollars for primers. He sent back a box with a piece of 2x4 in it with the word "sucker" written on it. Complained to GB.... got banned.... again. I'll never go back.

That’s a felony. I assume you involved local law enforcement?

 

[Hokkmike]

I don't need a gun so bad to put myself at risk. Any on-line deals are ALWAYS preliminary and culminate in FTF meetings with a up-close inspection of the firearm in question before handing over any cash.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I don't need a gun so bad to put myself at risk. Any on-line deals are ALWAYS preliminary and culminate in FTF meetings with a up-close inspection of the firearm in question before handing over any cash.

Yet you put yourself at risk when you meet FTF. Think about, you're going to meet someone who knows you have a bunch of cash. You know they have a gun. What's to stop them from robbing you at the FTF meetup point?

I ask because this has happened in my area a few times, and at least two of those have ended in gunfights where the buyer has died. They're using these ads/sales to lure people in. I feel like there is less risk from a completely blind, online transfer. At least then you're only risking money and not your safety.

 

[welldoya]

I would indeed not have someone come to my home and look at something that he cannot legally buy. I have other and better means of diligently checking a seller out.

I never said anything about coming to your house.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Good point, but two caveats. The first is that sellers are rarely set up to accept charge cards, and alternatives such as pay pal are strictly anti-gun. The second is that if the card covers a loss, that means we all get to pay to cover those expenses. I have read of cases in which the card company did not cover the loss, but of course they don't broadcast those events just as Disney World doesn't spend a lot of time warning us about the gators.

Some sellers on gunbroker are actual brick-and-mortar FFL's. As such, they do accept credit cards, and personally I am willing to buy from such a seller but not from an unknown individual. Others may be more risk-tolerant.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I have heard of "using and image search" but how do you go about doing that??

1. save the image to your hard drive
2. open google and click image search
3. upload the image from your hard drive to google
4. google will display any images it thinks match, if you see the right one, click on it to go to the website where it appears

I believe Bing also has image search. DuckDuckGo does not AFAIK.

 

[Poper]

Yes, but America is supposed to be better than that.
One often overlooked area for 2A advocacy concerns financial protections. We need a strong federal banking law that requires neutrality with respect to products. Pay Pal should not be able to deny its services for 2A activities.That would make online 2A dealing easier.

It appears you may have missed the memo.
The government does not want 2A dealing any easier.

 

[Will Munny]

That’s a felony. I assume you involved local law enforcement?

And because he used the mail system it is also a Federal offense I'm pretty sure. Of course, the FBI has better things to do than catch mail fraud, like investigating parents that go to school board meetings. And my Tourette Syndrome is acting up again...

 

[D.B. Cooper]

...the FBI has better things to do than catch mail fraud...

The Postal Service has their own investigative arm.

 

[Brubz]

I stopped buying online not because of fraud but because of all the fees.
You buy a gun on GB for $499. Then comes the shipping charge, the FFL fee, the credit card fee, the state sales tax and you end up paying $600.
Better to establish a relationship with a LGS where he will order what you want. You still pay the sales tax but you will come out ahead more often than not and you are supporting a local business

 

[Will Munny]

The Postal Service has their own investigative arm.

Which is also probabally preoccupied with rooting out thoughtcrime rather than catching scammers.

 

[Hokkmike]

Yet you put yourself at risk when you meet FTF. Think about, you're going to meet someone who knows you have a bunch of cash. You know they have a gun. What's to stop them from robbing you at the FTF meetup point?

I ask because this has happened in my area a few times, and at least two of those have ended in gunfights where the buyer has died. They're using these ads/sales to lure people in. I feel like there is less risk from a completely blind, online transfer. At least then you're only risking money and not your safety.

Because I must agree on the time and location. It will be somewhere that I know will be as safe as possible. My previous correspondence and fact finding gives me knowledge and intuition about the potential seller/buyer. I would, for example, do business with someone from this forum who has a long history here and a lot of good feedback. I get to choose whom I do business with, And nothing says I have to go alone. The risk factor is extremely minimal to the point of nonexistent in my book. I don't need any gun so bad as to be "lured in" as you say. Anybody can be conned, scammed, or robbed if they go off nilly-willy.

 

[buck460XVR]

There are many legitimate and reputable online sellers. Stick to those and use a payment method you know will protect you, and there is no reason what-so-ever to avoid buying online. No different than buying FTF with cash. You can get screwed there too if you walk in without knowing what you are buying and what kind of reputation the seller has. There have been snake-oil salesmen and "get rich quick" scammers out there since the invention of currency. The internet is just another tool of the trade. When everywhere else is sold out and there's one no-namer online that has all you want for a good price? This was and still is common with primers for reloading since the shortage began. You need to think twice. It ain't rocket science.

 

[welldoya]

Last seller on GB that scamed me had over 950 positive posts and a brick and mortar store. Only accepted USPS MO. Sent him almost a thousand dollars for primers. He sent back a box with a piece of 2x4 in it with the word "sucker" written on it. Complained to GB.... got banned.... again. I'll never go back.

Why would he bother sending a box with a 2x4 in it? Why send anything if it’s a scam?
I’m hoping that you are saying the seller got banned and not you.

 

[hemiram]

I would have missed a lot of great guns if I insisted the (almost always) really old guy selling his owned for 30-50 years guns take a credit card. One of the last ones I bought was a 28-2 from the original owner who bought it in 1967. I paid with a USPS MO, and all was very well.

 

[hemiram]

I stopped buying online not because of fraud but because of all the fees.
You buy a gun on GB for $499. Then comes the shipping charge, the FFL fee, the credit card fee, the state sales tax and you end up paying $600.
Better to establish a relationship with a LGS where he will order what you want. You still pay the sales tax but you will come out ahead more often than not and you are supporting a local business

I don't think I've ever even come close to what a LGS around here chages for a gun, except on the cheapest of the cheap, say a Taurus PT111 G2 or similar. Even then, finding one locally is pretty much a total crap shoot, as I've found out wasting my time looking. If the seller on GB is charging an insane shipping charge, I pass. My FFL gets a reasonable $25 and most of the time, it's buy more than one gun at the same time, pay only for one transfer. Most of the time around here, unless it's a Taurus or S&W M&P, it's not nearly as cheap to by locally as it is on GB, and in some cases, it's a lot cheaper, as in hundreds of dollars saved. The one place that used to have a lot of guns I liked was totally fixed on prices and might, just might, toss in a box of ammo as the sole "break" you got on price. One gun I had just bought from a seller on GB, it was $369+$12 shipping,+20 FFL for a total of $401. At the only LGS I found the same gun at, it was full list price, $579.99. The difference would have just about bought me a Taurus PT111 G2 on sale on GB or one of the big online sellers.

 

[481]

I've bought a ton of guns off gunbroker. However I have my own personal rules for buying on there.

1. The seller must accept credit cards. I very rarely buy from a seller that only accepts Postal Money Orders. That seller must have good feedback.
2. The seller must have good feedback that is recent. I won't buy from a non-rated seller. I check the recent feedback from high volume sellers with lots of feedback.
3. The seller must list the shipping costs and the credit card fees.
4. I prefer the seller to have an FFL or ship through an FFL.

Sure I might've missed out on some deals from private sellers. However, I've never been screwed.

I look at the pictures that are provided of the gun. I've been buying from Gunbroker since 2001. In that time I've left only 1 F feedback on a seller that wouldn't return emails that he initiated and took forever to ship something. This was a high volume seller.

Your self-imposed rules for buying firearms on GB match mine almost to the letter with the exception of rule #4.

4. The seller must have an FFL. This keeps shipping costs down, ensures legal compliance, and eliminates hassles from individuals who ship firearms illegally through the USPS, knowingly or unknowingly.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

...it's not nearly as cheap to by locally as it is on GB, and in some cases, it's a lot cheaper, as in hundreds of dollars saved...

I'm very surprised to hear this. GB being an auction, and auctions are designed to bring the highest price possible. Typically, the more bidders at an auction, the higher the bidding. (This is stuff we all know-nothing new here.) But, with GB essentially being a nationwide auction, with a lot of bidders, I'm surprised to hear that anything sells cheap.

I also don't do any business at ebay, and for the same reasons that I don't do business at GB. Anytime I try to sell something, people want to pay pennies on the dollar, but when I try to buy something, it always goes for 80-90% of new prices. (I see the same phenomenon at yard sales, pawn shops, Facebook Marketplace, etc.-anything in the secondary market really.) Add into that the high probability of being ripped off, and online auctions just aren't of any value for me. (And, due to the prevalence and ease of online auctions, live auctions are a thing of the past.)

Just about the only value I see in GB, ebay, etc., is the ability to easily find long out of production, collector status items. Even with that, you have to take into account all of the problems and risks previously stated.